The Brexit Thread

[Flynnie]

How much are they?

In 2010, it was £840 for a two-year spousal visa, after which you could apply for indefinite leave to remain*, which was another £840.

*worth mentioning that ILR was free until 2003. Thanks,Tone!

After 9 years of those bastards, it's now £1,523 for a visa if applying outside the UK. Which doesn't seem that bad, except Tee's increased the period where you need a visa from two years to five years, and you need to apply again halfway through. So add another £1,033 on top of that. Furthermore, they introduced a compulsory surcharge to use the NHS, which has just doubled to £400 a year. So that's another £2,000. And indefinite leave to remain is now an eye-watering £2,389.

In other words, it's now over £5,000 more expensive to settle your partner in the UK. By the way, this is several times the cost of processing these applications, which might be about £1,200 for the three of them, and the second NHS surcharge certainly seems unfair since the partner is a taxpayer by then.

By comparison, the fees for a residence card for an EEA citizen's family were £65 before the recent EU settlement scheme opened up, with another £65 for a card for ILR. Due to recent changes by the Government, they're now free. So it's really a no-brainer to try and bring up GFA to save five grand.

It's entirely possible that this isn't where this is coming from, but I think it's notable that I don't recall hearing anything like this before the Tories got in. Most people who go and meet their partners in America probably have £840 lying around, but when your end-run around UK immigration law saves you a nice whack of your house deposit then it gives you pause.

[Duncan Gardner]

Flynnie- I think it (Emma de Souza's case) is in large part a Sinn Fein supported stunt. That said the Home Office are acting the cnut.

[johnr]

Pretty much yeah – a country convulsed by a deadening National Question, obsessed with a historically inaccurate version of its own past.

Anyway, re a referendum, which I think is probably now the best option when the Lab/Tory talks break down: what about either a three-way question, with a transferable vote option, or a two-legged affair, with a run-off between the top two options a week later? Either way, you'd almost certainly be looking at a No Deal v Remain final

Your last line is why I'm terrified of a Referendum. And why I prefer a General Election.

[E10 Rifle]

Oh so would I. The parliamentary arithmetic needs to change in order to break the deadlock in any sort of vaguely sustainable way.

[Moonlight Shadow]

My ILR application in 2001 cost me nothing (aside from a token admin fee and some postage...)...

[Diable Rouge]

http://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1125747803077083145

[Fussbudget]

By comparison, the fees for a residence card for an EEA citizen's family were £65 before the recent EU settlement scheme opened up, with another £65 for a card for ILR.

There was no ILR card for EEA citizens (at least not recently), just the £65 permanent residence card which serves the same purpose as an ILR card and allows you to apply for citizenship.

[Nocturnal Submission]

http://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1125747803077083145

Fascinating that 8% think that everything is going swimmingly.

[Snake Plissken]

It's Theresa May, spamming the results line.

[Flynnie]

Flynnie- I think it (Emma de Souza's case) is in large part a Sinn Fein supported stunt. That said the Home Office are acting the cnut.

There was another case about this in the news, involving an NI native of Italian descent. I think there may also have been one involving a London Irish person, although they may have renounced British citizenship to try this. So its not just this one person.

obviously they have a point, although I think the bigger point is that UK border and visas are not fit for purpose. If the fee disparity wasn’t so dramatic, I doubt people would care so much and since I’m sure Northern Irish people had non-EEA partners before 2010, you could say the proof is in the pudding.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Flynnie- I think it (Emma de Souza's case) is in large part a Sinn Fein supported stunt. That said the Home Office are acting the cnut.

I'm not sure this is a stunt. This is a real problem on a number of levels. Firstly the UK govt is arguing that they are not bound by international treaties, and secondly they still don't understand that the GFA is more important than literally every single other law on their books. You can't have any sort of agreement with a government with this. This is basically Trumpism.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

If we were going to no deal under May, it'd have happened already. As long as she stays PM I think it won't happen (and begrudging credit for her for that). If the Tories manage to find some way to defenestrate her then all bets are off.

You have to remember that you can get to no deal by being so unspeakably and obviously untrustworthy that no-one does a deal with you. Every time a candidate for the tory leadership talks about agreeing something with the EU, and then ignoring it later, it gets a lot harder.

[sw2borshch]

So no comments on Farage's call for the Brexit Company to be invited on to the negotiating team if they win the Euro elections?

[sw2borshch]

Sorry, that's The Brexit Party Ltd, one of 121 companies on the English and Welsh register with Brexit in the name. It's fair to say a fair few of them are already dissolved.

[Duncan Gardner]

Flynnie- as I said the Brit Govt have acted crassly in de Souza's case. And quite likely generally

Berba- you and others keep presenting the GFA as akin to Magna Carta wrapped into the Treaty of Versailles. In its 3 main aims- ending systematic violence, starting effective power-sharing and enshrining rights- it has basically failed on the latter 2. It needs to be replaced.

On a recent parallel thread, you and others chided SF for ovee-promising. In reality, they promise stunts and then deliver them. Because it's an easy win. That's why Mary Lou keeps marching through Boston or Frisco with a collecting bucket

EdS is saying effectively 'I won't sign a document renouncing British citizenship because I never had it in the first place' . I have some admiration for her principled stand, but it's clearly a stunt as I said

[anton pulisov]

The ending systematic violence part is pretty important, though.

[Duncan Gardner]

Agreed. 1 out of 3 ain't good enough though...

[Nocturnal Submission]

Worst Meatloaf song ever.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Berba- you and others keep presenting the GFA as akin to Magna Carta wrapped into the Treaty of Versailles. In its 3 main aims- ending systematic violence, starting effective power-sharing and enshrining rights- it has basically failed on the latter 2. It needs to be replaced.

Well remind me again why Britain hasn't passed the Withdrawal agreement? It is because they can't get their head around the Idea that the Good Friday Agreement takes precedence over anything that the UK wants. Before Brexit the GFA was an international agreement between two EU member states, and pretty much an internal matter, where the UK can do pretty much as they please. After Brexit, the Shoe is entirely on the other foot. The Problems with the GFA ulitmately come down to the UK govt completely failing to hold the Unionists Feet to the fire and force them to try and compromise. It was hard enough to get New Labour to focus on it, but the Tories have completely withdrawn from any active participation, and allowed the Unionists to do as they please, and it has devolved to the point that they are now in Coalition with the DUP.

that is going to have to change. The DUP would do well to remember that if they keep this bullshit up, this is going to end in a United Ireland, rather than a return to protestant supremacy.

[E10 Rifle]

In its 3 main aims- ending systematic violence, starting effective power-sharing and enshrining rights- it has basically failed on the latter 2

It would have comprehensively and catastrophically have failed on the latter 2 had the GFA not existed.

[Duncan Gardner]

Berba- you're doing it again

However this ends up, it's unlikely to produce either a return to Unionist supremacy or a United Ireland in the next generation. You're more likely to see a credible ManU title bid

E10- what's your point? Mine is that the GFA has failed, however worthwhile its intent

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Also given that incredibly stupid and toxic nonsense that Michael Gove wrote back in 2000 about the GFA (which seems to have been taken down from the internet) it seems that this is an issue that is going to keep coming up again and again. The UK has gone completely off the rails

[Duncan Gardner]

Can't disagree with your last...

[E10 Rifle]

E10- what's your point? Mine is that the GFA has failed, however worthwhile its intent

A sort of Churchill-on-democracy one: that the GFA is the worst possible agreement, apart from all the other alternatives, which are even worse.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

DG, I think you a) underestimate how badly brexit is going to go and b) what are farmers going to do when they face losing their farms? I see Bombardier have put their factory up for sale. I'm sure that there will be loads of interested parties for a factory outside the EU that is reliant on frictionless trade with the EU, and probably single market membership to function properly.