Originally posted by Lucy Waterman
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He was notoriously the most Machiavellian, and was most famous as the person who brought down Blair. Your lot could have made a less predictably destructive choice.
As I said at the time.Last edited by Lucy Waterman; 17-06-2019, 16:59.
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- Jan 2012
- 3291
- Worthing
- The Hammers, until Mark Noble goes.(he's still there, sort of)
- Garibaldi, dipped in tea.
A fair point LW. Though having just reminded myself of the candidates, and trying to put myself back in that time and mindset, I'm still not sure that I wouldn't vote for him again. More fool me.
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From a very bad bunch, it's a shame Rushnara Ali didn't get enough nominations. Looking at the motley bunch of people who did nominate her reminds us how different a world 2015 was.
Roberta Blackman-Woods, Paul Blomfield, Lyn Brown, Dawn Butler, Julie Cooper, Jeremy Corbyn, Clive Efford, Fabian Hamilton, Helen Hayes, Tristram Hunt, Rupa Huq, Sadiq Khan, Seema Malhotra, John Mann, John McDonnell, Chi Onwurah, Teresa Pearce, Matthew Pennycook, Yasmin Qureshi, Dennis Skinner, Andy Slaughter, Keir Starmer, Chuka Umunna
I think Watson won because he was vocally anti-Murdoch.
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: Ben Bradshaw, Stella Creasy, Angela Eagle, Caroline Flint, and Tom Watson.
I guess, looking back Eagle was the least worst option.
Flint????
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- Jun 2017
- 2959
- A long way from Utopia.
- India, Ireland & numerous, numerous ABscenarios...
- Far too many, currently...
Originally posted by johnr View PostA fair point LW. Though having just reminded myself of the candidates, and trying to put myself back in that time and mindset, I'm still not sure that I wouldn't vote for him again. More fool me.
He was the least worst of an uber mediocre bunch...
Which is why I voted for him.
#Regret
Though paradoxically I do agree with his EU stance.
Just nothing else.
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Originally posted by Diable Rouge View PostLabour set to fully declare for a second referendum today?
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Can people stop pretending that Labour has delayed brexit in some way. The only reason that Brexit hasn't already happened is that the Tories can't agree on a form of brexit between them.
Secondly, Labour should have come out the day after the Referendum, and said that the people have spoken, but the message is profoundly unclear, and people voted for Brexit for profoundly contradictory reasons, and were offered something that is effectively impossible. Therefore, the Labour party will support whatever agreement the UK govt of any party manages to get out of the EU as long as it is put to a three way referendum, so they can vote on the reality of brexit.
Instead they demanded that the UK trigger Article 50 the day after the referendum, and effectively gave the executive a free hand in interpreting the referendum in any way they saw fit.
Labour offering to vote for the withdrawal agreement in return for a referendum might have got them somewhere when Theresa may was desperate to get her withdrawal agreement through, but that moment is long gone, and now it's going to be Boris. It would also have been a brexit position that wasn't based on delusion, dishonesty and triangulation, and it wouldn't have effectively smothered properly grounded criticism of Brexit bollocks. It is going to be too late now, and too much time has been wasted.
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I'm not sure I follow this argument, but you seem to be suggesting that May called the election because she thought Corbyn looked incompetent; and if he'd held a competent looking position she wouldn't have called it. Do I have that right?
Also, it currently looks like in 4 months we're going to be out on a harder Brexit than May wanted - and which, as has often been pointed out by Corbyn's backers on here, it's likely that nobody can do anything about. So, I'm not 100% sure what has been achieved by that. I hope I'm wrong, but I see no evidence of it yet.
(And, of course, Labour are not only three years late, they're also only halfway there - there's no point wanting a referendum if you're not going to take a position on the outcome you want. This is the same disingenuous bollocks as the Peoples Vote crap. They don't want a "Peoples Vote", they want Britain to remain. A referendum is not an end; it's a means to an end.)
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