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    Originally posted by Lucy Waterman View Post
    If Corbynistas don't want Tom Watson to Tom Watson, they shouldn't have elected him Tom Watson. That said, as MomentumRetweetTalkingPoints go, this is weak tea.
    He was the 'best' of a very uninspiring, right-leaning bunch, but we are where we are.

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      He was notoriously the most Machiavellian, and was most famous as the person who brought down Blair. Your lot could have made a less predictably destructive choice.

      As I said at the time.
      Last edited by Lucy Waterman; 17-06-2019, 16:59.

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        A fair point LW. Though having just reminded myself of the candidates, and trying to put myself back in that time and mindset, I'm still not sure that I wouldn't vote for him again. More fool me.

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          They were all utter shits. As I said at the time.

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            So why pick the one who’s best at being a shit? That’s all I’m saying. Imagine how ineffectual Angela Eagle would have been.

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              I dunno, I'm not a member. I was screaming at loads of socialists joining Labour to vote for Corbyn that they shouldn't be supporting any one of those scumbags.

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                From a very bad bunch, it's a shame Rushnara Ali didn't get enough nominations. Looking at the motley bunch of people who did nominate her reminds us how different a world 2015 was.

                Roberta Blackman-Woods, Paul Blomfield, Lyn Brown, Dawn Butler, Julie Cooper, Jeremy Corbyn, Clive Efford, Fabian Hamilton, Helen Hayes, Tristram Hunt, Rupa Huq, Sadiq Khan, Seema Malhotra, John Mann, John McDonnell, Chi Onwurah, Teresa Pearce, Matthew Pennycook, Yasmin Qureshi, Dennis Skinner, Andy Slaughter, Keir Starmer, Chuka Umunna

                I think Watson won because he was vocally anti-Murdoch.

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                  He was also mates with McCluskey still.

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                    Yeah, but he didn't win on Union votes, he was comfortably the most popular choice with the members as well.

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                      It was an awful bunch. And there was no need to vote for any one of them.

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                        : Ben Bradshaw, Stella Creasy, Angela Eagle, Caroline Flint, and Tom Watson.

                        I guess, looking back Eagle was the least worst option.

                        Flint????

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                          Originally posted by johnr View Post
                          A fair point LW. Though having just reminded myself of the candidates, and trying to put myself back in that time and mindset, I'm still not sure that I wouldn't vote for him again. More fool me.
                          Ditto.

                          He was the least worst of an uber mediocre bunch...
                          Which is why I voted for him.
                          #Regret

                          Though paradoxically I do agree with his EU stance.
                          Just nothing else.

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                            You didn't have to vote for any of them.

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                              Yeah out of that lot I'd vote for Eagle again. My main regret is having Watson as second choice, thereby assisting the malevolent shit-stirrer's success

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                                Or you could not vote for any of them.

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                                  I abstained because fuck all those guys.

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                                    Or you could not vote for any of them.

                                    Oh, hang on....

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                                      Could you just have a first choice and leave the second blank?

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                                        Yes.

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                                          Labour set to fully declare for a second referendum today?

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                                            The real fight starts now.

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                                              Originally posted by Diable Rouge View Post
                                              Labour set to fully declare for a second referendum today?
                                              nearly three years late. I suppose this will allow them pretend to their members that they tried everything.

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                                                If they had done it three years ago, we'd be out of the EU on a hard brexit already, because May wouldn't have called/lost the majority at the last election.

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                                                  Can people stop pretending that Labour has delayed brexit in some way. The only reason that Brexit hasn't already happened is that the Tories can't agree on a form of brexit between them.

                                                  Secondly, Labour should have come out the day after the Referendum, and said that the people have spoken, but the message is profoundly unclear, and people voted for Brexit for profoundly contradictory reasons, and were offered something that is effectively impossible. Therefore, the Labour party will support whatever agreement the UK govt of any party manages to get out of the EU as long as it is put to a three way referendum, so they can vote on the reality of brexit.

                                                  Instead they demanded that the UK trigger Article 50 the day after the referendum, and effectively gave the executive a free hand in interpreting the referendum in any way they saw fit.

                                                  Labour offering to vote for the withdrawal agreement in return for a referendum might have got them somewhere when Theresa may was desperate to get her withdrawal agreement through, but that moment is long gone, and now it's going to be Boris. It would also have been a brexit position that wasn't based on delusion, dishonesty and triangulation, and it wouldn't have effectively smothered properly grounded criticism of Brexit bollocks. It is going to be too late now, and too much time has been wasted.

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                                                    I'm not sure I follow this argument, but you seem to be suggesting that May called the election because she thought Corbyn looked incompetent; and if he'd held a competent looking position she wouldn't have called it. Do I have that right?

                                                    Also, it currently looks like in 4 months we're going to be out on a harder Brexit than May wanted - and which, as has often been pointed out by Corbyn's backers on here, it's likely that nobody can do anything about. So, I'm not 100% sure what has been achieved by that. I hope I'm wrong, but I see no evidence of it yet.

                                                    (And, of course, Labour are not only three years late, they're also only halfway there - there's no point wanting a referendum if you're not going to take a position on the outcome you want. This is the same disingenuous bollocks as the Peoples Vote crap. They don't want a "Peoples Vote", they want Britain to remain. A referendum is not an end; it's a means to an end.)

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