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    Originally posted by Nocturnal Submission View Post



    Sums up these plankton.

    BP will probably mop up.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Duncan Gardner View Post
      I once beat up the Labour MP for MK North (North-East as was).

      Relax. Future MP (it was in our school playground in 1973). He was bullying me so I smacked him in the mouth, burst into tears and ran away

      As a tactic/ strategy it wasn't the worst- he didn't do it again, then devoted himself to public service after leaving school months later. RIP 'Muttley'
      No-one cares.

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        @ Etienne: Indeed. The TV argument (put here by Gonzo) manages to be both 'Vote Labour because of the 2017 result locally' and also simultaneously 'What happened in 2017 isn't relevant because things have changed'

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          Originally posted by Etienne View Post
          Yeah, tactical voting would be easy if you just look at the 2017 GE, assume nothing has changed and vote on that basis. But there are definitely seats where the Lib Dems (currently polling in the high teens, low twenties) are more of a threat to the Tories than in 2017 - when they polled 8%.

          Look at Stroud say. In the 2017 GE Labour won it as an ultra-marginal, with them and the Tories hoovering up 93% of the vote. Fine, no problem, easy choice to make. Except that in the 2019 Euros the votes went:

          Brexit - 12,501
          Green - 12,143
          Lib Dems - 9,134
          Tory - 3,741
          Lab - 2,863
          Change - 1,200
          UkIP - 1000

          I mean, it's quite possible, likely even that in a GE it will end up as a Tory vs Lab fight, but basically five different parties could put up a "only [insert party name] can beat [insert party name] here" with decent justification.
          As my pollster acquaintance would say, there's at least 'half the seats that can be influenced by TV'.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Duncan Gardner View Post
            @ Etienne: Indeed. The TV argument (put here by Gonzo) manages to be both 'Vote Labour because of the 2017 result locally' and also simultaneously 'What happened in 2017 isn't relevant because things have changed'
            Except I'm Not Gonzo.

            Illiterate Tool.

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              Etienne - tThe MK North one - as presented - is straightforward. And just to play the game for one second, if the Brexit Party stood and if Remain Tories went to the Lib Dems that still isn't going to be enough to put the LDs over Labour, but #FBPE just won't admit it. They are looking for excuses.

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                MK European election results (I can't find MK North specific figures)

                Brexit Party 20,617 votes.

                Liberal Democrats 14,996

                Labour Party 8,707.

                Green Party 6,802

                Conservatives 5,675.

                Change UK - The Independent Group 2,477 votes

                UKIP 1,626.

                If you are a Green voter who has decided to vote tactically to keep out Brexit/Tory parties, I'm not sure it's 100% clear who to vote for - assuming that Lab and LD are polling similarly nationwide. If Lab have pulled a few points clear it might make it easier.

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                  Possibly if Labour committed to a better fucking voting system then they'd be better placed to get people to vote for them tactically.

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                    Originally posted by Etienne View Post
                    Possibly if Labour committed to a better fucking voting system then they'd be better placed to get people to vote for them tactically.
                    Tbf, if you had STV you probably wouldn't need TV.

                    Though the former would open the door to the BP fascists.

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                      I'm not sure the current system which is pushing the Tories into adopting all the BP fascist policies is much of an improvement on that.

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                        Aye, Labour's longstanding justification for opposing electoral reform is dishonest. They don't mind if a few Further Right MPs get elected; rather it's that they still think they can win an overall majority when people get fed up with the Tories- despite having effectively lost Scotland to go with largely abandoning Southern England outside London under every leader bar Blair. That's 250 seats out of play for a start...

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                          Etienne Not an improvement, just an alternative.

                          Sadly PR has a major downside, especially in the current climate.
                          Last edited by George C.; 20-09-2019, 11:02.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Duncan Gardner View Post
                            Aye, Labour's longstanding justification for opposing electoral reform is dishonest. They don't mind if a few Further Right MPs get elected; rather it's that they still think they can win an overall majority when people get fed up with the Tories- despite having effectively lost Scotland to go with largely abandoning Southern England outside London under every leader bar Blair. That's 250 seats out of play for a start...
                            Not as many as 250, but still 400 or so up for grabs.

                            Though realistically can't see Labour >300 even under the most optimistic circumstances.

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                              No, PR does not have a major downside, even in the current climate.

                              If a system exists where a party get 15% of the vote and no MPs, a party also gets 15% of the vote and gets 0.5% of the MPs, another party gets 35% of the vote and 40% of the MPs and another 35% of the vote and 50% of the MPs, that is a broken system.

                              As for the Brexit Party specifically, the reason they've managed to grow is because of the system - they've been able to exercise power without responsibility. The BNP died very quickly once they started winning the odd election because people could see them for the incompetents that they are.

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                                @ Probably not Not Gonzo

                                59 in Scotland: your pollster pals suggest they may win only 1

                                197 in Southern England outside London: they currently hold 22

                                Add Northern Ireland and that's 5 regions of the 12 where Labour currently hold 29 seats out of 274.

                                Your last line in #17,945 is realistic, the first a daydream
                                Last edited by Duncan Gardner; 20-09-2019, 11:14.

                                Comment


                                  You're an Illiterate moron.

                                  Comment


                                    Be careful.

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                                      Sorry, but I can't help his lack of literacy skills.

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                                        Then use the Ignore Poster function and it won't annoy you so much.

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                                          Or he could just stop talking horse faeces.

                                          Plus have a miniscule libertarian streak, so don't believe in 'Ignore Poster' and I am not a pompous assh*le.

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                                            Cool. Then you know what you are doing and you accept what might happen.

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                                              Fair enough.

                                              Though you could also censor others as per above.

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                                                The argument against PR on the left used to be something about endless coalition governments where the Liberals block you from doing a real socialism, but I just can't see how Labour are ever going to get a majority without a substantial number of seats in Scotland, and I don't think that's realistic anymore.

                                                It also completely ends the chance of the Tories ever getting a majority. They probably wouldn't even have a sizable majority if the Liberals were in coalition with them.

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                                                  It's 'minuscule' by the way

                                                  Comment


                                                    Like your literacy skills then.
                                                    https://grammarist.com/spelling/minuscule-miniscule/

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