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    Hold on, what? She's addressing people who are interested in financially supporting or campaigning for gay causes and telling them to give their money to the parts of the various communities most at risk. The three organizations are an organization supporting Lesbians of colour, An organization for transgender people of colour, and a broader Transgender umbrella group. she's not using black people to further any agenda, she's saying you should support their agenda, other than pointing out that the horrible thing that happened to her, is mild compared to what is happening to people less white, and less femme lesbian than them, She's not part of any wider group, she's not dropping anyone. She didn't have to say anything, and what she says is that if you think that what happened to her is bad, what is happening to other less media friendly victims is vastly worse, so you should really be supporting them. They get it from the homophobes and the racists, and get it twice as hard from the homophobic racists. One of those articles says that five black trans people were murdered in the US in May. That seems like...... a lot. I mean it seems fair enough for her to focus on victims of homophobic crime, because that's what happened to her.

    What would you have liked her to have done?
    Last edited by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!; 17-06-2019, 19:48.

    Comment


      Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
      Hold on, what? She's addressing people who are interested in financially supporting or campaigning for gay causes and telling them to give their money to the parts of the various communities most at risk. The three organizations are an organization supporting Lesbians of colour, An organization for transgender people of colour, and a broader Transgender umbrella group. she's not using black people to further any agenda, She's not part of any wider group, she's not dropping anyone. She didn't have to say anything. One of those articles says that five black trans people were murdered in the US in May. That seems like...... a lot. I mean it seems fair enough for her to focus on victims of homophobic crime, because that's what happened to her.

      She didn't mention attacks on Gay and Transpeople of all colours, She talked about amongst other things racism and white Supremacy (which implies against black people).

      What would you have liked her to have done?
      Talk about attacks on LGBT people and keep it moving. She made good points and then spoilt it at the end.

      Comment


        Iím not entirely sure I get TGís objection. Is it the organizations she recommends that you donít like? Perhaps Iím being dense.

        Perhaps you object to her objection to a sincere effort to help LGBTQ people. That makes some sense to me, I think.


        There is a tendency among a lot on the left to call out anything they find insufficiently woke or ďtoo mainstream, manĒ, or not intersectional enough. Iím never entirely confident that these call-outs are motivated by a sincere effort to fix problems so much as a kind of competitive purity/virtue-signaling contest. I notice this especially among the people in their 20s that I follow on Instagram.

        Thatís not going to win many converts to the cause.


        I understand that corporations and Major League Baseball teams displaying rainbow flags may not accomplish a hell of a lot and that the mainstreaming of LGBTQ people still mostly means white, cis, middle-class people and that there are still a lot of people on the margins. Especially transgender people, non-binary people, and anyone who stands out and/or doesnít fit into what used to be called polite society. (Sex workers or ex-sex workers are an oft-cited example, though that strikes me as a separate issue.)

        But young people, especially, donít seem to understand how much blood, sweat and tears had to be shed just to get to this moment where attractive, white, cis gay people could have massively successful TV shows and a Major League Baseball team in the south could have a rainbow flag night. Certainly, when I was in college in the early 90s and, much to my shame, *just being made aware of these issues* I didnít expect same sex marriage to be legal or normalized in my lifetime.

        So this represents great progress. Itís not enough. Not nearly enough. But to roll your eyes and act like itís just more capitalist bullshit and doesnít count until a transsexual sex worker is president (or whatever far off milestone) pisses on all the work done and pain suffered (none of it by me, Iím somewhat ashamed to acknowledge) over many generations.

        We we need to find better ways of commending the work done so far while also looking ahead.
        Last edited by Hot Pepsi; 17-06-2019, 20:14.

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          I, for one...

          Comment


            Originally posted by Tactical Genius View Post
            So she listed a broad range of oppressed people, then recommended money should be donated to a very small subsection of those oppressed people.

            Does that make sense?
            Does it make sense that she did that? Or does it make sense that it raised your hackles and pissed you off?

            I have absolutely, positively no idea what this woman should have done differently - or could have done better - that would have made you happy. My takeaway is that she's trying to redirect the spotlight away from the 'pretty white ladies' toward marginalized people who could use the support much more....but don't easily get it. And this bothers you.

            This, sir, is utterly fucking baffling.

            On most days, you're working full time to find something to be offended by. This time, it appears you've hired staff and are paying them overtime.

            Comment


              Law360 (June 17, 2019, 11:01 PM EDT) -- A New Jersey attorney was arrested Monday after he allegedly attempted to enter a courthouse with a loaded handgun in his briefcase ó and without a permit to carry a firearm...

              Comment


                Hot Pepsi.

                Iím not entirely sure I get TGís objection. Is it the organizations she recommends that you donít like? Perhaps Iím being dense.

                Perhaps you object to her objection to a sincere effort to help LGBTQ people. That makes some sense to me, I think.
                I have no opinions on those organisations and I have no issue with her highlighting the abuse LGBT people get.
                People shouldn't be harassed, physically or verbally abused because of the gender they choose to identify with or who they chose to share a bed with (as long as that other person is a consenting adult)
                If she had recommended donating to organisations that fight racism, white Supremacy and persecution against Immigrants then I would be cheering the loudest on here.
                She didn't which I believe is not an oversight but intentional and in my opinion to milk others suffering for the financial gain of her specific community. This is what I object to.

                WOM.

                There are many things I think you are, but stupid isn't one of them. If you disagree with my take on it, that is fine. Stop playing dumb and confused. If you disagree, that's fine.
                I know you read my posts on such matters and you know there is a central consistent theme running through all of them (I know this as your response is always the same).
                It's a tired old trick I have seen many times and is less impressive the more I see it.

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                  TG: I appreciate the balanced approach of flattery and condescension. It's rare. But I give you my word I'm not trying some 'tired old trick'; nor am I playing dumb and confused. I legitimately can't see where you'd finding the material for your anger and offense much of the time.

                  That's when I chime in occasionally on your other thread; to offer up the possibility that there's nothing there, and maybe you're looking too hard to spot 'white supremacy'. A phrase, incidentally, that I think you use to mean anything form genuine systemic, institutional, organized whites-first ideology all the way down to casual (or even unintended) racism. If you believe it's all the same thing, that's fine. I don't.

                  But here's the thing: you seem to have decided that you can't be wrong about these things, ever. If someone disagrees with you, they're playing a dumb trick, they're part of the problem, or they just don't 'get it'. I think my favourite trump card of yours ever was along the lines of "every member of my family has experienced racism every day of their lives, so don't you tell me that...." or something very close to that. I mean, how can you even begin to argue with that?

                  You speak of a central, consistent theme. And I agree completely. Hell, you've opened a storefront called The White Supremacy Thread and now you need merchandise to stock it. So, you see it everywhere now. It's a bit bonkers, frankly. But yes, I'm white and you're black so of course I'd say that and what do I know, etc etc. I know the drill.

                  So, once again, I tried to engage on this topic with you, and once again got shut down. So, okay, you win. Everyone's a racist. Even the woman who wrote an entire article for the guardian saying "hey, don't just look at the pretty white women....look at marginalized women of colour who need your support" and then included the names of four charities to which she donated AND included the links in case you felt like doing likewise. BUT...the foolish woman didn't name every single charity in the UK that helps / is run by an LGBT woman of colour...so she's now part of the problem.

                  Comment


                    Quite alarming, really: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48680623

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                      You have said a lot here, so I am going to challenge you to back up what you say.

                      I legitimately can't see where you'd finding the material for your anger and offense much of the time
                      Please give me three examples where i have shown anger and offence which confused you.
                      The white Supremacy thread is many pages long so you can go through my numerous posts of Black people being abused, often on video and in print. That shouldn't take long

                      That's when I chime in occasionally on your other thread; to offer up the possibility that there's nothing there
                      That's not really your tone isn't it. You normally say your confused and don't understand my point and thus everything I said is discredited. You have done this more than once, an example was your thoughts on reparations and your thoughts on the death of Nipsey Hustle. Your so predictable, I actually know you as Mr Candid and not WOM.

                      and maybe you're looking too hard to spot 'white supremacy
                      In what way, I am genuinely interested in how you come to that conclusion. After all, the examples I put on my pet thread are the most blatant examples here, i'm not exactly scraping the barrel.

                      A phrase, incidentally, that I think you use to mean anything form genuine systemic, institutional, organised whites-first ideology all the way down to casual (or even unintended) racism. If you believe it's all the same thing, that's fine. I don't.
                      It depends what you define as casual Racism and what you define as non-casual racism.
                      I prefer to use the definition of White Supremancy as defined by Neely Fuller JR and Frances Cress Welsing (look them up) in the nine areas of human interaction. Namely:
                      1) Economics, (2) Education, (3) Entertainment, (4) Labour, (5 ) Law, (6) Politics, (7) Religion, (8) Sex and (9) War

                      Neely Fuller said, "If you do not know the system of White Supremacy and what it means, everything you think you know will only confuse you".

                      But here's the thing: you seem to have decided that you can't be wrong about these things, ever
                      This is nonsense, I give my opinion, i provide evidence (and plenty of it) you are not obliged to agree with me. But If you come back with weak arguments and try argue on what you think (or more like hope) I mean rather than what I actually said (your tactic in this post) then yes.

                      "If someone disagrees with you, they're playing a dumb trick, they're part of the problem, or they just don't 'get it'"
                      Berbaslug and Hot Pepsi disagreed with me on the last couple of pages, I did not accuse them of playing dumb. If your argument is so wrong why do you constantly have to resort to telling lies and making stuff up. They asked me to clarify and I did, they are free to accept my interpretation of the article.

                      So, once again, I tried to engage on this topic with you, and once again got shut down. So, okay, you win. Everyone's a racist.
                      I never shut you down, nor did I call you or anyone else a racist in this discussion. From where I am reading this, you are the one trying to shut this conversation down by making up stuff and going into victim mode.

                      I think my favourite trump card of yours ever was along the lines of "every member of my family has experienced racism every day of their lives, so don't you tell me that...." or something very close to that. I mean, how can you even begin to argue with that?
                      OK, where did I say that or something even close to that........ i'll wait.

                      You speak of a central, consistent theme. And I agree completely. Hell, you've opened a storefront called The White Supremacy Thread and now you need merchandise to stock it. So, you see it everywhere now. It's a bit bonkers, frankly. But yes, I'm white and you're black so of course I'd say that and what do I know, etc etc. I know the drill.
                      Permission to use rolling eyes smiley.

                      Even the woman who wrote an entire article for the guardian saying "hey, don't just look at the pretty white women....look at marginalized women of colour who need your support" and then included the names of four charities to which she donated AND included the links in case you felt like doing likewise. BUT...the foolish woman didn't name every single charity in the UK that helps / is run by an LGBT woman of colour...so she's now part of the problem
                      You see, from this statement I can only come to two conclusions, either you skim read the article, or you are playing dumb and omitting important information out to fit your narrative.

                      And for the record, I do not seek to shut anyone down who disagrees with me, especially WOM. After all, knowing he is there, primed and ready to drive a coach and horses though any chink in my logic keeps me honest.

                      Also, take note that I have quoted word for word what you have said and what I disagreed with. I would hope you do the same in your reply rather than putting words into my mouth.
                      Oh, and I must warn you WOM, I have some new mechandise I plan to put up in my storefront in the next couple of days, I would appreciate if you stop by for a browse........







                      Comment


                        No thanks.

                        I just spent the better part of my lunch reading all 17 pages looking for the "every member of my family" quote, which (sadly) I was unable to find.

                        What it did do, though, was refresh my memory about how you talk to people who disagree with you on anything of a racial nature. You're brutal. You won't agree with that assessment, and you'll ask for examples, but nah. This is your deal, and that's fine. You look for racism lurking around every corner and ...surprise...you find it. Sometimes dead to rights; other times very tenuously. The Nipsey Hussle exchange was a great example. I asked you what was so strange and you retreated to "dunno mate...just asking the questions".

                        I do apologize for a couple of broad strokes comments I made in my post. Using 'ever / never / always' is poor form. And I know that racism is endemic, and exists in a million places that I just (as a white male) don't see.

                        So out of respect, I'll avoid your threads and keep my questions / comments to myself. I know you're not asking for that, but it's the least I can do.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by WOM View Post
                          No thanks.

                          I just spent the better part of my lunch reading all 17 pages looking for the "every member of my family" quote, which (sadly) I was unable to find.
                          What it did do, though, was refresh my memory about how you talk to people who disagree with you on anything of a racial nature. You're brutal.
                          What it should do is to teach you that using lies to win a debate against me is a fools errand, you are not the first and I really don't know why people still think this will work after night on 20 years. I mean, my stock answer is always going to be, "show me where I said that". This is why I am fond of directly quoting people when i disagree with them.
                          Taking apart someones post line by line with full quotes is only brutal when they are being dishonest and disingenuous, otherwise it is an exchange of opinion.

                          You won't agree with that assessment, and you'll ask for examples, but nah. This is your deal, and that's fine.
                          WOM, comments like this........ well, I'll let others draw their conclusions........

                          You look for racism lurking around every corner and ...surprise...you find it. Sometimes dead to rights; other times very tenuously.
                          Jesus Christ........... does anyone else on OTF really think this. Genuine question?

                          The Nipsey Hussle exchange was a great example. I asked you what was so strange and you retreated to "dunno mate...just asking the questions".
                          Lies again, I said the reported sequence of events, the behaviour of the Law enforcement and how someone who was apparently a low level criminal managed to end up with Christopher Darden as his defence Attorney was highly suspicious and didn't quite add up. You were just pissed off I didn't give you a wacky conspiracy theory you could easily debunk. Myself and Ursus went over all of this in great detail. If you read that exchange, you will see his conclusion.

                          I do apologize for a couple of broad strokes comments I made in my post. Using 'ever / never / always' is poor form. And I know that racism is endemic, and exists in a million places that I just (as a white male) don't see.
                          If that is really the case, how can you say something like this,
                          You look for racism lurking around every corner and ...surprise...you find it. Sometimes dead to rights; other times very tenuously.
                          So out of respect, I'll avoid your threads and keep my questions / comments to myself. I know you're not asking for that, but it's the least I can do.
                          No, by all means air your comments, I find them interesting.



                          Last edited by Tactical Genius; 18-06-2019, 18:43.

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                            https://www.inquirer.com/news/cocain...-20190618.html

                            Thatís a lot of coke.

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                              Someone is going to miss that.

                              in order for 16.5 tons of cocaine (or any other powder) to be distributed among only seven containers, they need to be hi-cube containers and filled with virtually nothing else.

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                                That's a LOT of charlie.

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                                  90 Percent Of Kids In LA Countyís Juvenile Halls Have ďOpen Mental Health Cases

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                                    mArItImE lAw

                                    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...rth-high-court

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                                      Sovereign citizens, man

                                      Somehow I doubt that he got to where he is but reading Alphaville.

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                                        There was a really interesting, and distressing, Radiolab episode about a US woman whose birth wasn't registered because of her family's weird religious beliefs, and when she escaped she found (and I think still finds) it extraordinarily difficult to do the most basic things. It's a bit reminiscent of the travails of dead people in India, except in her case there's no record she even exists.

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                                          It's a facebook site so I can't link to it but Cahir News revealed that Austin Gaelic Cowboys, defeated Dallas Fionn Mac Cumhaills to win the much coveted Texas senior football championship. There was one Cahir person playing for Austin, and three for Dallas.

                                          There are some linguistic difficulties involved when you take such a rural local sport, and then try to internationalize it. In Ireland the GAA headquarters sits at the top of the pyramid. Underneath that are the provincial boards, and below that then, at the level that deals with clubs, you have the County board. So when the time came to have a board to organize all the various Gaelic football teams throughout Asia, what do you think they called it?

                                          ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the Asian County Board.

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                                            I heard about it yesterday and was going to post it on the other thread.

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                                              I was torn

                                              The racial element is screamingly obvious, of course

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