The Dis-United Kingdom Thread - (Indyref 2, United Ireland poll, Welsh independence)

[Lang Spoon]

Born in Yorkshire, but a SLab apparatchik his entire working life. That's a fuckin depressing thought.

[Duncan Gardner]

Wider Labour are so far behind now that one-off votes matter little. But it's a small consolation that Starmer-Stiff can rely on twice as much support in NI as Scotland....

[Foot of Astaire's]

Around 15 years ago I was a delegate at our Trade Unions national AGM and remember chuckling with some of the Scottish contingent about how few Tories there were up north. Labour were in power nationally, a born and bred Scotsman was soon to be PM and the Tories were nowhere. How the feck has Labour allowed it to come to this?

[Duncan Gardner]

2019 General Election (Scotland only)

SNP 45% (48 seats)
Tory 26% (6)
Labour 18% (1)
LibDem 9% (4)
Others 2%

As Spoony and others have said, Labour have little chance of revival without independence...

[Foot of Astaire's]

There'll be a bizarre scenario in Scotland with Remainers arguing it's better for the Scots to leave and Brexiteers saying its vital they stay in!

[Lang Spoon]

It was partly the chuckling complacency of yer comrades that led SLab to fall so far and so fast, FoA.

Now there's a poll with Indy at 55%, so SLab might well be starting their revival in EFTA Scotland in say 5-6 years.

I'd say it doesn't even matter if fuckin Salmond tries to take down Sturgeon with his memoirs and the connivance of fuckin Cherry and the transphobe micro parties, this is unmoored from SNP support now, folk just want away from the shitshow that is Westminster, including plenty of SLab voters.

wouldn't be surprised to see Wales get to 40%+ Indy over the next decade either, there's a last days of the Soviet Union reek to the systemic corrupt and incompetent UKania these days.

[Lang Spoon]

There'll be a bizarre scenario in Scotland with Remainers arguing it's better for the Scots to leave and Brexiteers saying its vital they stay in!

Yeh loads of pro EU no voters have switched or are swing voters, only the hardcore unionist (who were often pro Brexit) British Nationalist core can be depended on now.

Waving the red white and blue could only ever have been of short term benefit to the Ruth Davidson for a Stronger Ruth Davidson and Unionist Party, even many (most?) Scots Tories define themselves as more Scottish than British, the majority of voters under 50 don't see themselves as British at all.

the Tories forgot they (as Unionists (meaning Ireland, not Scotland) not formally part of the wider Tory Party) were once the hegemonic monolith of Scotland (over 50% of the vote up to 1955) by Standing Up For Scotland against the centralising Atlee Govt (and a side helping of sectarianism). Slab were the same Block vote (ineffectual) force against Thatcher.

The Scottish Parliament has created an escape capsule but, the traditional cringe is fading as however pish Holyrood looks, the clown car govt down South is worse, and positively malignant. It's also clear how little Scotland's voice matters down there with perma Tory majority, and if you have a way out, why not take it?

[Patrick Thistle]

There's the same Brexit Party/ Abolish the Assembly v pro-EU/ independent Wales in Europe Plaid Cymru split in Wales. We also have a Brexity independence party which is the way forward for IndyWales in the pro Brexit areas. Personally I think Plaid should play down their intent to apply to the EU as an independent nation and phrase it as ensuring a better deal for Wales as opposed to the no deal approach Westminster is spiralling towards. Welsh Labour are adamant that Wales will stay in the union under a Labour Welsh Government and that might be their undoing. I like my Labour Senedd member but don't identify with a pro-Union Labour party. In terms of their own values (stop laughing) Welsh Labour would be better off in an independent Wales but losing the Labour MPs would reduce the Westminster presence for Labour even further. It feels like Welsh Labour are putting the needs of UK Labour above what is best for Wales.

[Lang Spoon]

At least your Labour Branch Office makes occasional breaks with Big Labour. They seem slightly more nuanced re nationalism than the Scottish rump still focussed on hate of the SNP above all else (the cheek of the Nats, stealing their votes) and Hating Nationalism while wrapping themselves in the fucking Union Flag (the Jackie Baillie/Ian Murray/Kevin Hague wing is particularly sick making).

[Lang Spoon]

So gelatinous Gove and that even more hideous Galloway are bigging up a vote in Indyref2 based on blood not residency. And Gove has been meeting with the old fraud to "save the Union". The ethnic nationalists in Scotland right now are the dirty Brits.

[Duncan Gardner]

Speaking as an Irishman in England with a Scottish name who briefly considered standing for Parliament as Gwilym ap Tomos, I hereby renounce any voting rights in a future Indyref

[Diable Rouge]

https://twitter.com/magnusllewellin/status/1296316659167309824

[Lang Spoon]

Fuck sake.

[elguapo4]

What's next, Ireland should raise a statue to Cromwell?

[Lang Spoon]

Michael McDowell and John Unionist would probably go for that.

[Diable Rouge]

https://twitter.com/ChristiCorvus/status/1300374965208875008

[Patrick Thistle]

Rhyddid i Yorkshire!

[DCI Harry Batt]

Dicks

[willie1foot]

The SNP fuck up big style on a wide range of subjects but remain bulletproof. There is absolutely no opposition in Scotland with any real support or credibility.

its not a good position regardless of your politics.

Yet if you relied on the comments from the Lanarkshire Proddys on my Facebook (former schoolmates), you'd think the Tories will stroll in at the next Scottish election. Brainwashed fucking idiots.

[Erskine Bridges]

The Tories did well for a little while because the Unionist vote coalesced around them. Or rather, around Ruth Davidson. She’s gone, they’re gone. Labour are just, just, not even a branch office anymore.

They’re the completely useless ones in a portacabin on the other side of the car park who are only still employed because Tony has photos of the MD at the Xmas party from a few years ago.

I couldn’t tell you who leads the LDs so it’ll probably be Green next time. Also to save the planet obvs and that vote will count in the PR Holyrood election.

I’d rather the SNP weren’t so incompetent or possibly corrupt. But I fear the worst. It’s depressing. Very depressing.

[Diable Rouge]

Meanwhile, Shetland looks to the Faroes in pursuit of regional devolution.

[Patrick Thistle]

Yes Cymru is promoting a poll that shows 72% of people in Wales have more faith in the Senedd than Westminster. The next question is how to move those people a step on down the independence pathway.

[Diable Rouge]

You probably begin with babysteps, looking for the Senedd to be given the same executive and legislative powers as Holyrood.

[pebblethefish]

Yes Cymru is promoting a poll that shows 72% of people in Wales have more faith in the Senedd than Westminster. The next question is how to move those people a step on down the independence pathway.

That's a pretty poor figure isn't it? I mean, I'm in England, and I'm not sure what a Senedd is, but I've got more faith in it than I have in Westminster. I've got more faith in the pigeon that's staring at me through the window than I've got in Westminster.

[ooh aah]

That's a pretty poor figure isn't it? I mean, I'm in England, and I'm not sure what a Senedd is, but I've got more faith in it than I have in Westminster. I've got more faith in the pigeon that's staring at me through the window than I've got in Westminster.

Yeah but what you have to remember about that remaining 28% is that around 10% are the usual don't follow politics types who don't know anything about westminster either, and the other 18% are what's left of those who voted no in the devolution referendum back in 97, and to the day they die will be absolutely adamant that devolution was a bad idea. Even if the Welsh gov started posting million pound checks to every household in Wales, whilst at the same time the UK gov started adding ebola virus to the water supply, they would still claim to have more faith in Westminster.