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The Dis-United Kingdom Thread - (Indyref 2, United Ireland poll, Welsh independence)

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    Many little Englanders live in Wales.

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      It's also definitely to the credit of the Indy movement in Scotland that them foreigns (especially English born, the largest non Scots born minority in Scotland) weren't blamed for the loss of Indyref1 (though it was indeed their votes wot swung it).

      not sure the Salmondite frothers would be so magnanimous and Civic Nat a second time around.

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        Originally posted by pebblethefish View Post

        That's a pretty poor figure isn't it? I mean, I'm in England, and I'm not sure what a Senedd is, but I've got more faith in it than I have in Westminster. I've got more faith in the pigeon that's staring at me through the window than I've got in Westminster.
        tbf there's a lot of reasons to not have a great deal of confidence in the Senedd.

        Their covid response has been poor (had the Wales Italy game gone ahead in March as they'd initially said it could, the death toll could have been much worse; had they cancelled concerts a week earlier and the Stereophonics gig not gone ahead hundreds of lives would probably have been saved). They fucked up A-level results and had to back-track. They keep trying to force through plans to dump waste material from nuclear power plant construction ("nuclear mud") in Cardiff Bay which has gone down like a sack of shit once before.

        Their only saving grace is that the clowns in Westminster have been handing them opportunity after opportunity to go "look we're not nearly as bad as them" and the Tories default mode at the moment is a nationalism that tends to play very differently in Wales than it does in England (even among Welsh people who vote Tory).

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          The current First Minister and governing party have also repeatedly said that he/they are a unionist party. Which is going to be interesting as the pro Indy movement grows. Labour has disconnected from its voting base in the North. Indy is growing in the South.

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            Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
            The current First Minister and governing party have also repeatedly said that he/they are a unionist party. Which is going to be interesting as the pro Indy movement grows. Labour has disconnected from its voting base in the North. Indy is growing in the South.
            Welsh Labour voters are themselves 50/50 on independence, according to a new poll - granted, when you dig deeper into the raw data, it becomes murkier, but even then, more are drawn to the idea (39%) than against it (37%).

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              Labour is beginning to concentrate on the main issues it faces in Scotland by, er, trying to get rid of Richard Leonard.

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                Jackie Baillie and Anas Sarwar will Save The Union.

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                  To be fair, Richard Leonard is pretty much invisible but not sure going back to Kezia Centrism and trying to out Tory the Tories on being obnoxious Unionists will do fuck all either.

                  The useless fucks are lucky the Lib Dems branch office is run by Willie Rennie and are the fucking Lib Dems or they could be Scotland's 4th party.
                  Last edited by Lang Spoon; 03-09-2020, 10:21.

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                    If SLab want to give the impression of Standing Up For Scotland and not being a mere back office with no autonomy, I'd imagine they won't welcome fucking Rachel Reeves saying Leonard must go.

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                      Originally posted by Snake Plissken View Post
                      Labour is beginning to concentrate on the main issues it faces in Scotland by, er, trying to get rid of Richard Leonard.
                      #LennyMustGo (before 10 election losses in row?)

                      Ps SLab are already #4 for Westminster seats (48, 6, 4, 1)
                      Last edited by Duncan Gardner; 03-09-2020, 10:44.

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                        That they think their problem is their leader is evidence of just how fucking stupid people can be.

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                          Originally posted by Duncan Gardner View Post

                          #LennyMustGo (before 10 election losses in row?)

                          Ps SLab are already #4 for Westminster seats (48, 6, 4, 1)
                          Aye Dunc that's true, but down to FPTP stupidity (and the Lib Dems clientelist bases up Thule way/Posh Fife). It's the coming embarrassment at Holyrood they are looking to mitigate, probably hoping against hope they can pip the Tories to second if they wave the Union fleg lots and dogwhistle a bit on the Lanarkshire/Ayrshire stump.

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                            My ancestral home- the earlier Gardner's flitted from a village near Ardrossan, Not saying they were bored, but it was living in Ayrshire...

                            In a recent repeat of Polly Portillo's phoned in travelog, Tory Boy poses outside my granny's house beside Larne station before boarding ship. Next scene he's swapping bantz with SLab canvassers in Girvan

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                              I saw the Kirkcaldy one on YouTube recently, deffo did a good job editing out the murk. Poor wee bas having his holliers in Kdy as a nipper but.

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                                Originally posted by Diable Rouge View Post

                                Welsh Labour voters are themselves 50/50 on independence, according to a new poll - granted, when you dig deeper into the raw data, it becomes murkier, but even then, more are drawn to the idea (39%) than against it (37%).
                                A split is coming.

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                                  Or plaid finally cannibalise WLab in the South, young activists see the way the wind is blowing and jump ship.

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                                    The most intellectual comment by a UK Conservative in quite some time:

                                    https://twitter.com/DavidMeldingMS/status/1301079859716907008

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                                      Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
                                      Or plaid finally cannibalise WLab in the South, young activists see the way the wind is blowing and jump ship.
                                      Plaid need an urban strategy that is actually about urban living in cities of more than 15,000 people. They also need to embrace the Welsh culture that isn't bardic chairs, acoustic guitars and medieval dancing. There's a place for eisteddfodau, but there's more to Wales in the 21st century.

                                      Also they need to stop fighting the Remain position. We can't Remain now. We won't be able to rejoin the EU immediately. They need to talk about getting a better trade deal than Boris's shitty no deal.

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                                        Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post

                                        Plaid need an urban strategy that is actually about urban living in cities of more than 15,000 people. They also need to embrace the Welsh culture that isn't bardic chairs, acoustic guitars and medieval dancing. There's a place for eisteddfodau, but there's more to Wales in the 21st century.

                                        Also they need to stop fighting the Remain position. We can't Remain now. We won't be able to rejoin the EU immediately. They need to talk about getting a better trade deal than Boris's shitty no deal.
                                        Almost as if Yes Cymru were reading your mind on appealing to Brexiteers.

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                                          Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post

                                          Plaid need an urban strategy that is actually about urban living in cities of more than 15,000 people. They also need to embrace the Welsh culture that isn't bardic chairs, acoustic guitars and medieval dancing. There's a place for eisteddfodau, but there's more to Wales in the 21st century.

                                          Also they need to stop fighting the Remain position. We can't Remain now. We won't be able to rejoin the EU immediately. They need to talk about getting a better trade deal than Boris's shitty no deal.
                                          The SNP for years were a party of the rural North East and Perthshire, tartan Tories for real. But from the 70s they slowly worked at building a base in the central belt, especially among communities abandoned by SLab or taken for granted as easy vote fodder. Mostly they abandoned parochial cultural nationalism and Tartanry as well.

                                          Now the Nats have completely destroyed Slab in the population centres (bar one posh Embra suburb) and the Tories have mostly eaten into their former North East base. Do Plaid have much ground game in the council schemes of Swansea and Cardiff?
                                          Last edited by Lang Spoon; 03-09-2020, 19:47.

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                                            EFTA/EEA holding pen upon independence seems a good way to kick the EU debate into the long grass.

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                                              Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post

                                              Do Plaid have much ground game in the council schemes of Swansea and Cardiff?
                                              I'm gonna say no because I've seen no evidence to the contrary. I know Plaid members in Cardiff and Barry and places but my gut feeling is they are more of a middle class option fighting the Liberal Democrats for socially conscious Waitrose shoppers who are fed up with Labour.

                                              I don't think anybody targets the council estates because the people who live there don't tend to vote.

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                                                Originally posted by Diable Rouge View Post

                                                Almost as if Yes Cymru were reading your mind on appealing to Brexiteers.
                                                Well that's Nation.Cymru saying what Yes Cymru need to do but I agree with all of that in terms of strategy. I've said it previously on this thread.

                                                If the argument has already won about leaving oppressive unions who don't give a fuck about ordinary people then.just carry on that campaign. It's time for Wales to take back control.

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                                                  (Not that we ever had control. At least not since Llewellyn. But yeah.)

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