Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Dis-United Kingdom Thread - (Indyref 2, United Ireland poll, Welsh independence)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Anyone know what the Green Party position is on the nations going independent?

    Comment


      Scottish Greens are certainly pro-Indy, whatever about the E&W one.

      Comment


        Wales has its own Green Party but it's not mentioned in the website policy document (not manifesto!) and there's nothing on the WGP specific page.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Diable Rouge View Post
          Were a Holyrood election to be held today, the Scottish Tories would even fall behind SLab in seat numbers:
          Here's a wee flavour of exactly why that is -
          https://twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/1304407695949168642

          Meet the new boss, worse than the old boss.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post

            I'm sure you're welcome. #AUOB

            But you raise a point. What happens next? They're not a party with a manifesto.

            As someone who grew up in England, still has an accent, and only knows beginners Welsh, I appreciate the "we don't hate England/the English" theme in Yes Cymru messaging. Some of the people who comment on the social media posts on support of independence just sound like racists if they swapped "English" for another nationality or ethnicity.
            but they go further than that in making supportive notions towards english nationalism and suggesting that their campaign is similar to notions of "english independence" which is of course far-right conspiratorial grievance-mongering. England is already independent - in fact it still has an empire. "English independence" makes no sense at all.

            in fact, it's the rise of muscular english/british nationalism that the current wave of support for welsh independence is a reaction to. the nationalist coalition that won the brexit referendum need to keep finding enemies - threats to britain/england.

            "take back control" was effective because it was a racist dog-whistle. but welsh independence is far less about "control" (Cardiff feels more remote than London does if you're anywhere north of Brecon), than about self-preservation. and not from imagined migrant hordes but from gentrification, neoliberal economics and greater-England chauvinism.

            Comment


              https://twitter.com/Record_Politics/status/1305453904986091521

              Comment


                bold of keir starmer to be calling for a unilateral declaration of independence but fair play

                Comment


                  What an ice cream haired cunt. We don't need a failed state of delusional racists either.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Bizarre Löw Triangle View Post

                    but they go further than that in making supportive notions towards english nationalism and suggesting that their campaign is similar to notions of "english independence" which is of course far-right conspiratorial grievance-mongering. England is already independent - in fact it still has an empire. "English independence" makes no sense at all.

                    in fact, it's the rise of muscular english/british nationalism that the current wave of support for welsh independence is a reaction to. the nationalist coalition that won the brexit referendum need to keep finding enemies - threats to britain/england.

                    "take back control" was effective because it was a racist dog-whistle. but welsh independence is far less about "control" (Cardiff feels more remote than London does if you're anywhere north of Brecon), than about self-preservation. and not from imagined migrant hordes but from gentrification, neoliberal economics and greater-England chauvinism.
                    I've been thinking a lot about your points here - it's given me pause.

                    My read on the 'English independence' comments is that it's the comeback to "you're nothing without us / you're a drain on England" trolling, trying to turn that around to say - well maybe you'd be better off without us then. There are memes going around along those lines of 'how come we are nothing but parasites until we say we want to leave'? I can't gauge how genuine the support is for English separatist movements like Yes Kernow.

                    I know there is a tendency for comments from North Wales that Cardiff is out of touch with the North as Westminster, and that probably fueled the switch to Boris's Brexit Party in December 2019. From the South, it's difficult to know what the North wants or even understand it properly - but I wonder if part of that is historical geography (Liverpool being the big city with a gravitational pull) that means it doesn't orient itself towards Cardiff and then complains it gets ignored. (I see this a lot in my work role because we are trying to do all-Wales work and I have to deal with the logistics of people spread across the geography with no quick routes between them. It feels sometimes likes however accommodating we try to be to everyone, no one is happy.)

                    We have some communities and areas that voted to Leave by a large margin, both North and South and maybe in those areas we need to capture those sentiments before the hard right do. We have the Abolish the Assembly Party developing a North Wales base, it would appear, for precisely the reasons you say - Cardiff seems more distant than London - so how do we go about bringing Wales closer together so that we aren't divided and conquered (again)?

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
                      We have some communities and areas that voted to Leave by a large margin, both North and South and maybe in those areas we need to capture those sentiments before the hard right do. We have the Abolish the Assembly Party developing a North Wales base, it would appear, for precisely the reasons you say - Cardiff seems more distant than London - so how do we go about bringing Wales closer together so that we aren't divided and conquered (again)?
                      I can't see the abolish the welsh assembly party making any progress, not least cos plaid brecsit have nicked their usp (who in turn have had their usp stolen by the tories).

                      At the rate things are going, the three far right parties will be lucky to get 5% of the vote between them. like i don't think it's one thing or the other - the majority of people lean towards greater devolution but have no really strong feelings on the matter (and of course, there's a reasonable degree of satisfaction with the Welsh Government's response to covid).

                      That's not to say circumstances can't or won't change (especially wrt brexit) but they're a long way from a breakthrough at the moment.

                      I think the last part of your post comes down to what i was saying before about YesCymru needing some kind of vision beyond "take back control (from san steffan)". Stuff like the lack of meaningful transport infrastructure within wales, rural poverty, urban and rural gentrification, emmigration and unemployment are obvious areas separatists should be talking about and offering visions of how to tackle. but there seems to be a lack of willingness to engage on this at all.

                      Comment


                        Yes, it appears the Tories have consolidated the "Unionist" (for want of a better term) vote in both the constituency and list ballots, with their rivals to the right [url=https://blogs.cardiff.ac.uk/electionsinwales/2020/09/14/the-september-welsh-political-barometer-poll-2/] cancelling each other out. Labour, though recovering, are still below where they were in 2016, and Plaid show no sign of a breakthrough outside of their traditional strongholds, though slightly improved on the last election.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Bizarre Löw Triangle View Post
                          I think the last part of your post comes down to what i was saying before about YesCymru needing some kind of vision beyond "take back control (from san steffan)". Stuff like the lack of meaningful transport infrastructure within wales, rural poverty, urban and rural gentrification, emmigration and unemployment are obvious areas separatists should be talking about and offering visions of how to tackle. but there seems to be a lack of willingness to engage on this at all.
                          It's not a political party though, which I think is why it has been so popular. If it became a political party then it would need answers for all those. Is that the right way forward for it? I honestly don't know.

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X