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One 'F' in Fulham - Division Two 2021/22

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    Originally posted by Snake Plissken View Post

    Burnley's takeover was part-financed by a loan from him.
    By him or MSG or him AND MSG?
    MSG are iirc three blokes who acted as his investment consultants. He and them were gonna buy Sunderland between them a couple of years back. Something happened (no promotion from L1 iirc) and it fell through. Then MSG alone lent our useless owners 10m to keep the lights on after our first L1 season. One of em was also genuinely interested in taking us over on his own but that amounted to nothing.
    Then a few clubs were loaned money by them over a period of a couple of months and their interest in us disappeared.

    Seemed a strange business plan to me. Lending failing football clubs led by fools mad money. IE Sunderland n Derby.

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      If you can pocket the fees and sell off most/all of the debt before things go south, it can be a nice little earner

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        Also, MSD Partners has a good deal of Dell's own money (having been spun off from MSD Capital, which is family office)

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          Probably. But who’d be mad enough to buy the debt from them? It’s howling at the moon crazy type of stuff.

          I know young Dreyfuss bought us and paid them back ASAP but his family wouldn’t have been mad enough to allowhim to take the debt only off their hands. Besides all the cost cutting possible had already been done at our place. Frinstance once the academy wall clocks batteries ran out the then owners wouldn’t sanction buying new ones. The current head coach popped into Morrison’s (U.K. supermarket chain) and bought a bumper pack on his way back to his hotel after his first day in his new job.

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            MSD not MSG you’re right.
            Is he one of the loanees or is it just his mates loaning to clubs?
            There were three iirc different combinations linked with us. Him and his mates, his mates alone then eventually just the one of his mates alone. It was dizzying at the time trying to keep track.

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              There are billions of dollars involved, so it is rather hard to answer that.

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                Originally posted by Sunderporinostesta View Post
                Probably. But who’d be mad enough to buy the debt from them? It’s howling at the moon crazy type of stuff.

                .
                You would be surprised at the market demand for high yielding toxic debt.

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                  https://www.swanseacity.com/news/extended-highlights-luton-town-v-swansea-city-1

                  The highlights of the Luton Swansea match are worth a watch just for the reactions of co commentator and Swansea legend Alan Curtis.

                  Lansbury protesting his yellow card makes no sense.

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                    So it looks like there's probably going to be only 2 relegation spots to fight over? Gives us a slight chance, I suppose.

                    After the euphoria of the opening day win, it's safe to say that we've regressed to the sort of position that a lot of us expected to be in, yet once again in a manner similar to our last spell in this league the manager seems completely unwilling to adapt and change his setup in response to the opposition.

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                      Originally posted by Gangster Octopus View Post
                      I hadn't. But I'm less than surprised that a self-confessed supporter of Evil remembered it...
                      There is of course a reason why the supporters of evil have a vivid recollection of this particular relegation battle

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                        The text below is excerpted from a very long and comprehensive post on Sheep Dip, the Derby County supporters site. The writer has clearly been following this issue for some time.


                        "I have said for a while Administration was on the cards, however, I have been told that how the debt is structured with the club, it is unlikely administration will have much impact. I have also had the benefit to see higher level financials provided by a party involved in the potential takeover through an NDA and it isn’t pretty.
                        In respect of the club moving forward this is what I understand as now.
                        Penalty Points Being Faced:.
                        • 9 Points for Deliberate financial breaches. (Could now be 12 as administrators will now have to negotiate.
                        • 3 Points (Suspended from panel) for late payment of wages.
                        • 12 Points for administration.
                        • 15 Points for Creditors Penalty not paying 25% of footballing debts.
                        • 12 Points for breach of FFP for years 2015 – 2018 3 years accounts based on the correct amortisation.
                        • 9 Points for persistent breaches for 2018 – 2019 Accounts
                        • 9 Points for persistent breaches for 2019 – 2020 Accounts.
                        The EFL want to implement the absolute maximum on Derby, not because of a vendetta, but due to the alleged actions of Morris and Pearce whom I was told, pretty much used every trick in the book to avoid/delay/frustrate the EFL throughout this whole saga."

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                          I never thought I'd be wondering this and I know that league tables have teams on negative points. But. Is that how it works, If a team was punished with a 50 point deduction but only got 30 points over the season, would they be on -20 or would that have deductions to carry over?

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                            Why would they carry over? A negative number is still a number.

                            Some sides must have ended up with negative tallies over the years. But more that they were deducted a few points, which was more than they actually collected, rather than Derby's attempt to be deducted more points in one season than it is possible to actually gain (138 for the Championship).

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                              It didn't used to be that uncommon to see a non league table with someone finishing on negative points.
                              ​​​​​​
                              There's a report in The Athletic this morning which makes for really worrying reading. They quote someone anonymous who puts the club's chances of survival at no greater than 50/50 because of the state of the accounts, and claim that one of the administrators might be Andrew Andronikou, a name that will bring Portsmouth supporters out in hives from his involvement there.

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                                Reading rumoured to be next - said to be negotiating a nine point deduction for FFP violations

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                                  Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                                  Reading rumoured to be next - said to be negotiating a nine point deduction for FFP violations
                                  I think the negotiations are if it is a six or nine point ban, depending on the level of misdemeanor.

                                  The argument goes something like;-

                                  "you grossly inflated the sale price of the stadium. Your claiming the owner has paid 60 million for it when it's only worth 30 million"

                                  "That owner paid 9 million for Aluko and also gave Baldock a three year contract on 25k a week"

                                  "Six points it is then"

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                                    Are there any other clubs in Division Two likely to be docked points this season? If Reading and Derby get those point deductions there could be effectively only one relegation place.

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                                      There are a lot of piss poor sides and for the majority, form is hugely inconsistent, so a nine point deduction is a definite hinderence, but by no means a guarantee of relegation.

                                      Reading and Derby have both had steadyish starts, so if they carry on that form, even with a points deduction, they stand a very good chance of staying up.

                                      If Reading get a six points deduction, they are only one win away from being outside the relegation zone.

                                      Paunovic's obsession with zonal marking has lost Reading more than 9 points this season.

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                                        Originally posted by Antepli Ejderha View Post
                                        Are there any other clubs in Division Two likely to be docked points this season? If Reading and Derby get those point deductions there could be effectively only one relegation place.
                                        According to dubious sources (the Daily Wail at the beginning of the season) between five and seven clubs could face some type of penalty. There's speculation on-line they may include Birmingham and Cardiff but that's all it is.

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                                          Additional info fro Reading is that the reason it is negotiation with the EFL rather than immediate sanction, is because 60% of the spend was actually on infrastructure, primarily buying a golf club and turning it into a training ground.

                                          Also, the contrast with the other clubs is that Reading have a multi billionaire owner who seems particularly frivilous with his spending. Therefore, for the other clubs, the financial sanctions are there to stop them going bust, whilst for Reading, it's to stop financial doping.

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                                            “To help you survive, we are going to make it significantly harder for you to trade successfully” - well, it’s an approach, I guess.

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                                              Warnock begins his post match interview in typical victim mode with “I know I’m not allowed to say anything about referees...the FA are dying to fine me” etc and then inevitably spoils his self-pitying ‘cancelled’ status by moaning constantly about the referee and how reffing standards are the worst he’s seen on forty years or some such. As it happens the sending off incident he was whining about was a very harsh decision against his player but Warnock’s long and ignoble history of moaning means that people a) don’t take his complaints seriously and b) are rather glad that his teams end up
                                              on the wrong end of contentious decisions if only to irritate him.

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                                                Ian Holloway aims dig at Steve Cooper over Swansea departure

                                                https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...wsApp_AppShare

                                                Ian Holloway with some rather interesting views on Steve Cooper. He has no understanding of the situation Cooper faced at Swansea.

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                                                  Never understood the cult of Holloway. He's always seemed like a pretty rotten man.

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                                                    Not much of a pundit either. Any of the others on EFL on Quest offer more interesting analysis.

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