Originally posted by TonTon
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A searing indictment against sectarian vs secular education. -
Not at all. They've committed to a referendum whoever is in power, and whatever is negotiated. It's perfectly plausible to say (and McDonnell has all but already said it) 'we have a (slightly) better deal than May negotiated, it's the best there is' - with one of the Norway+/CU etc options - 'now you can take it or leave it, but no deal isn't an option, it's this or Remain'. The EU might well be happy with that, Remainers would presumably be happy - it's the 2nd Ref/People's Vote! - and I'd be up for campaigning on it, so everyone's a winner.Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View Post
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You think there's a chance that they'll do a Raab: Negotiate a deal and then campaign against their own deal?Comment
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There's no real negotiation involved. It involves accepting the withdrawal agreement as is, and tacking on a permanent customs union or single market membership on top. The thing is that at no point is this really a negotiation in any meaningful sense of the word.Comment
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Yes. And it's not doing a Raab, he was 'negotiating' on behalf of a Government that didn't know what it wanted, and he didn't know what he wanted himself (which it turns out was the opposite of May). Labour - if they won an election - would be negotiating with what they put in their manifesto (which would essentially be what Starmer was going for in EU discussions). And in that manifesto they'll say that they'll offer a referendum on it. Makes sense.Comment
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As a Remainer I don't find the hope that Labour will campaign against its own Soft Brexit deal to be particularly compelling. Having told us for 3 years they can get us a much better deal than May, why would they then get that deal and say "Fuck this for a laugh, vote against it"? It's not somewhere I'd want to pin my hopes. If I was pinning my hopes on a softish brexit, my feeling is that Labour probably would be the right vessel, and I expect that a Labour soft-Brexit has more chance of happening than any Remain position. But if I think (which I do) that remaining in the EU is vitally important, then Labour's equivocating position doesn't fill me with one iota of enthusiasm.
(Berba is, of course, right that there isn't really anything to negotiate - but I'm just taking the party's position at face value)Comment
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Only one(or two) minor blot(s) on the landscape potentially, well probably, my polling acquaintance is telling me Labour don't currently have a cat in hell's chance of winning a GE in the near future, nor Remain another referendum.
Basically 95% of current Leave voters still believe blindly that they're right.
Remain's best hope is new voters, people who didn't bother in 2016 and as important, stopping a million Commonwealth voters having full voting rights, when EU citizens have none here.
And sadly Jezza being Labour leader* is persuading voters to either switch more likely to the Lib Dems/Greens, than Tories directly.
Or in many cases to disengage with voting entirely.
Whilst also apparently putting off* disillusioned Tory voters, of which there are many.
But conversely their support is holding up on the highly dubious pretext, 'that they will get Brexit done'.
Yeah, of course they will.Comment
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(to SB) As a Remainer myself, I don't need to be filled with enthusiasm for what is an apparently contradictory, but actually entirely pragmatic, approach; I just need to know that it's probably the only way that, from here, we can get to Remain. It might be our last chance.
As mentioned here many a time, I hate the idea of deciding anything by referendum, and in the Brexit context I've been terrified off offering a no deal, for fear it might win - part of that fear is because there are Remainers who would vote for it to 'respect the result' (they do actually exist, I know a few). Labour's approach takes that completely out of the equation.Comment
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Ultimately, the only way of satisfying the brain dead is No Deal up against Revoke Article 50.Comment
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I see that the narrative for blaming No Deal on Europe is being firmly out there.Comment
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And on Labour for not stopping it.Comment
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Ironically, Leave voters are still months away from these conclusions though.Comment
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Everybody will blame each other, it will become even more unpleasant by the end of the year.Comment
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Fair enough UA, but the Brex-tremists don't care.Comment
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"Green MP Caroline Lucas calls for emergency all-female cabinet to stop no-deal Brexit" https://twitter.com/i/events/1160785635193442305
Nice theory, no great traction in reality though.
Especially the Brex-tremists.Comment
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Rather like Caroline Lucas, The LRB seems not to be aware of the existence of people of colour.Originally posted by ursus arctos View PostComment
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Saw a great phrase over the weekend to describe many of our politicians and pundits who keep attaching conditions to their support of blocking Brexit - "Meatloaf Remainers".
They'll do anything to stop No Deal (but they won't do that).Comment
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2 out of 3 minor parties standing down ain't bad
All ChUK'd up with no place to go
No 11 can wait
Deadringer for Gove
So what's the difference between Meaty collaborator Cher and Brexit stronghold Dudley North?
Neither of them has been fcuking Sunny for ages
PS I think Lucas has been on the Irn Bru or similarComment
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Hmm, she's not the only one...Comment
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I look forward to the Equality Commission investigation and two and a half year media campaign against the blatant sexism and racism from the very top of the party.Comment
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Which one?Comment
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I see that the Toad King of Little England has been slagging off the Royal Family to an audience Down Under.
Highlights -
The Queen Mother was a fat drunk
"Charlie Boy" is an ecoloon.
Harry was a good lad when he was acting the larrikin and off shooting wogs in Afghanistan, but now he's married someone unspeakable and is lost.Comment
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