The Brexit Thread

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Is Richard Neal issuing those threats as chair of the Friends of Ireland group, or as chair of the House ways and means committee? Or is he making a distinction?

[Toby Gymshorts]

Catching up on this thread.

Please note: I have that cunt on ignore, so if you could kindly refrain from quoting that cunt in your posts, so I don't have to see that cunt's fucking drivel, it would be appreciated.

[Flynnie]

In the 1948 general election, Fianna Fail lost their overall majority after 16 years of continuous power, but in order to do it, every other party in the Dail had to come together to form an inter-party govt. the problem was that Clann na poblachta refused point blank to sit in the same room as the leader of Fine Gael. Apparently Dick Mulcahy's past as Chief of staff of the IRA during the war of independence, and chief of staff of the Irish army during the civil war, meant that he had killed too many people near and dear to clann na poblachta. So Dick Mulcahy stepped down, as leader of Fine Gael, and instead became minister for Education and things carried on.

Why does Jeremy Corbyn have to lead this putative nonsense three day government? The other people in the remain movement do not trust him. They have no reason to trust him. I don't trust him. The last three years definitely happened. It shouldn't be important. make Lord fucking bucket head a proper lord and put him in charge. Do whatever it takes.

I don’t know, is Seán MacBride’s political career a good cautionary tale for Corbyn or for Jo Swinson? Because Clann were finished within a decade. This feels like what Goodall is arguing, not taking yes for an answer. The idea that Corbyn is going to take the reins and then forget to ask for an extension or something would be asinine.

As for Neal speaking as chair of Ways and Means or chair of Friends of Ireland, the answer is yes. Bad luck for BoJo that the chair of Ways and Means was raised by grandparents from Down.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

I hope this link works Here's 30 minutes of David Norris systematically dismantling of the reputation of Sean McBride. it's beautiful. If the link doesn't work google "David Norris Speaking ill of the dead" and it will be the google podcast from the 13 december 2006. David Norris doesn't like Sean McBride very much. He has footnotes.

The idea that Corbyn is going to take the reins and then forget to ask for an extension or something would be asinine.

Yeah well these people don't like him. Labour arriving so late to the party so late means that they can't necessarily pull rank and expect everyone to jump into line. Jo swinson seems to be a gobshite, but what are you supposed to do if you are the leader of the liberal democrat party?

[Lang Spoon]

Swinson will also lose her seat if the SNP put forward a candidate not named John Nicholson in the event of a snap election. Which I’d guess is also influencing her strategy.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

As for Neal speaking as chair of Ways and Means or chair of Friends of Ireland, the answer is yes. Bad luck for BoJo that the chair of Ways and Means was raised by grandparents from Down.

is he basically the person who decides if a trade deal would even be discussed by the house? Or is that Nancy Pelosi? Because she says the same thing.

If Brexiteers knew anything about their own history, they would know that the purpose of the special relationship is to try and hug the US so tightly that they won't fuck the UK like they did in 1918, or in 1945, or in 1947 or in 1956. Indeed Until recently I never twigged that the purpose of the Washington and London naval treaties limiting warship building was not to keep down japan and the smaller european powers, but to prevent an arms race and inevitable war between the US and the british empire. Fucking England had a wide popular support in the US. Whether among the Irish Americans, or the German Americans, or the presbyterians who flooded into the US in the aftermath of independence, or er, the american americans who remembered the various flashpoints down through the years. At this stage, nobody really cares in that same way, but the Northern Ireland peace process is one of the big foreign policy achievements of the Clinton administration, and is popular with republican Irish americans.

Though at this point it seems abundantly clear that a lot of the brexiteers seem intent on helping the US fuck britain this time, and maybe there will be a piece for them.

[ursus arctos]

It has to get through both of them for it even to make it to the floor.

Don't forget 1971 (end of Bretton Woods) or 1992 (Black Wednesday).

[Flynnie]

I hope this link works Here's 30 minutes of David Norris systematically dismantling of the reputation of Sean McBride. it's beautiful. If the link doesn't work google "David Norris Speaking ill of the dead" and it will be the google podcast from the 13 december 2006. David Norris doesn't like Sean McBride very much. He has footnotes.

The idea that Corbyn is going to take the reins and then forget to ask for an extension or something would be asinine.

Yeah well these people don't like him. Labour arriving so late to the party so late means that they can't necessarily pull rank and expect everyone to jump into line. Jo swinson seems to be a gobshite, but what are you supposed to do if you are the leader of the liberal democrat party?

I’ve heard this, I dive down the rabbit hole of Irish history every now and again and RTÉ do excellent podcasts on that kind of thing.

I think Norris even mocks Seán MacBride’s accent at one point, which is possibly a bit unfair as he did grow up in Paris.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

I’ve heard this, I dive down the rabbit hole of Irish history every now and again and RTÉ do excellent podcasts on that kind of thing.

I think Norris even mocks Seán MacBride’s accent at one point, which is possibly a bit unfair as he did grow up in Paris.

he was in ireland from the age of 12. He made kissinger sound plausible

Imagine setting up amnesty international seemingly to make the point that Gay rights aren't human rights.

[Diable Rouge]

The Telegraph take lying to a whole new level:

https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1164506819617837057

This after Macron saying the backstop was indispensable.

[Nocturnal Submission]

The Telegraph take lying to a whole new level:

https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1164506819617837057

This after Macron saying the backstop was indispensable.

Well, Macron might consider the backstop indispensable but not unamendable.

Here's the BBC's view:

He (Macron) described the backstop both as an "indispensable guarantee" of "stability in Ireland" and the means of protecting the integrity of the European single market.

But the expectation that he'd refuse point-blank to renegotiate the Brexit deal didn't materialise.

Instead, he simply warned that any withdrawal agreement that the two sides might reach in the next month wouldn't be very different from the existing one. And he asked for more "visibility" from the UK on its alternative proposals.

[Diable Rouge]

Well, Macron might consider the backstop indispensable but not unamendable.

Here's the BBC's view:

This all applies to the Political Declaration, however, which has been the EU position all along.

[Nocturnal Submission]

Sorry, I'm not sure I'm with you.

Are we talking about changes to the PD which have the effect of re-framing the backstop?

[Diable Rouge]

In the event that Johnson formulates a solution that makes the backstop redundant (unlikely given he appears wedded to Shanker Singham's alternatives), the Political Declaration would be accordingly rewritten.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Well, Macron might consider the backstop indispensable but not unamendable.

When are people in the UK going to realise that this means that the EU is prepared to allow the UK make concessions.

[slackster]

Seems to me the EU bigwigs are giving BoJo and his media cheerleaders just enough wiggle room here to reframe what is a continuation of a (self-inflicted) pathetic defeat as a morale-boosting victory for plucky England. Dunkirk-style stuff. Which “we” stupidly lap up in the UK.

[ursus arctos]

Not as long as they insist on consuming media that has consistently misrepresented the European position for decades and believes that it is now finally entering the home stretch, with their long coveted goal in sight.

[Nocturnal Submission]

When are people in the UK going to realise that this means that the EU is prepared to allow the UK make concessions.

Haha! I had to read that a few times!

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

In the event that Johnson formulates a solution that makes the backstop redundant (unlikely given he appears wedded to Shanker Singham's alternatives), the Political Declaration would be accordingly rewritten

But in the event that Johnson formulates a solution that makes the backstop redundant, they will still have to pass the backstop, because the backstop is there for when the UK inevitably tries to cheat on that agreement.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Actually at this point I'm just sick of people talking about the backstop. The Backstop is there because the GFA is an international agreement, it's written into our constitution, and has the full political support of both the EU, and at least one house of congress. That is literally half of the global economy right there. The UK may as well be trying to gain exemption from gravity, or the passage of time.

[Diable Rouge]

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1164509656041103360

[Nocturnal Submission]

Wow! That'll make him sit up and pay attention!

[Flynnie]

he was in ireland from the age of 12. He made kissinger sound plausible

Imagine setting up amnesty international seemingly to make the point that Gay rights aren't human rights.

Heh, yeah that's fair enough. His accent sounds hilariously French most of the time (occasionally he can't keep the mask on right), compared to someone like Kevin Shields who left Long Island for Ireland at the age of 10, and sounds Irish in about 75% of his words.

[Satchmo Distel]

A lot seems to depend on the EU taking Johnson at his word ("no plans for border controls in Ireland"), despite him being a serial liar.

[Ginger Yellow]

I love how "take back control of our borders!" has become "abdicate control of our borders!"