Irish Times

[anton pulisov]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

She can recite taking points, that's great.

I have a problem with people who become politicians very early in life. She has that much in common with Kenny.

I have had it with these young politicians going on about how the older politicians are out of touch and how the younger generation needs to get into politics and bla bla. The reason older politicians are out of touch is because they joined a political party when they were young and knew fuck all and have done nothing else since but turn into Simon Coveney.

Why don't these young people go away, spend some decades getting to know economic and social theory, make some kind of career for themselves and then run for office when they are fifty or sixty.

I guess you could say that my biggest problem with politics is politics.

Cork SC really is a horror show this time round. Couldn't vote for any of them.

[loose cannon]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

You're not cynical enough

You should be aware that the only views that will count will be those of the eventual Taoiseach

However he depends on the support of his party members and they will in turn adopt whatever cause will get them into power

Voting for Lorna will send a signal to them that 'green' issues matter and they will adopt them into their manifesto and it may eventually influence policy but their initial actual goal will be to divert the 'green' vote. Look at France - all the parties have shifted to the right to claw back voters who are heading for the National Front.

[anton pulisov]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

Politics in Ireland is stuffed full of incompetent career politicians with no basic knowledge of economic theory or governence. That needs to be addressed first, and then we can start worrying about more luxurious problems like manifestos and actual policy and things like that.

The signal I want to send is not one of left vs right but one of competence vs incompetence.

[Diable Rouge]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

Pierce Brosnan, yesterday.

http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/movies/movie-news/pierce-brosnan-bears-an-uncanny-resemblance-to-sinn-fein-leader-gerry-adams-during-filming-in-london-34363736.html

[Duncan Gardner]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

On AP's general point, I think the problem is long-serving hacks, not the age at which they start or finish. A two consecutive terms limit might help.

The Green Party leader in NI (still only 36) started his working life fronting a band called Killing Spree.

[Borracho]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

The Greens happily propped up possibly the worst government we have ever had, for five years. I would not vote for them if you paid me.

[Diable Rouge]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

I've similarly given up on all the party options available - not an inspiring line-up in Kerry either, but Michael Gleeson, a centre-left independent, looks set to run again tonight.

[Duncan Gardner]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

@GC: Begging the obvious question, who would you vote for (paid or otherwise)?

[anton pulisov]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

I'd vote for a party of competent technocrats. Couldn't give a shit if they were left or right.

Fianna Fail driving the Irish economy off a cliff had nothing to do with your standard right vs left politics, and everything to do with having fucking idiots and sons of fucking idiots in charge. What was is Bertie said again... "The boom is getting boomier"

[Diable Rouge]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

Oh, FG have been competent alright, it's the manner in which they've serviced their own members and support base that's rendered them indistinguishable from FF.

[Borracho]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

Duncan Gardner wrote: @GC: Begging the obvious question, who would you vote for (paid or otherwise)?

I've known for the last few years who I'll be voting for, an independent.

Amusing article in the Phoenix today about Fianna Fáil's increasingly desperate efforts to position itself as "a left-of-centre party" and define itself against the Thatcherites of Fine Gael.

[Duncan Gardner]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

@GC- thanks. Without being too nosey, are you convinced by a particular independent, or just convinced that one of them would be better than any of the parties on offer?

[Borracho]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

I had personal dealings with them and was impressed by their dedication to their job. But no, the pickings elsewhere aren't the greatest.

[Tubby Isaacs]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

Is there time for another budget? We now have two of them a year. Three if there's a change of government.

In 2010, the Coalition boosted confidence by having an Emergency Budget. In 2015, they held an extra one because we needed a "proper Conservative budget".

The proper Conservative budget increased spending over the course of the Parliament from the 2014 Coalition one. Work that out.

[Borracho]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

There was a budget a few weeks ago, the usual dead-eyed exercise in bribing the voters with their own money.

[Tubby Isaacs]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

If our lot were in charge, they'd hold another one next week because "the economy is doing even better than we thought".

[jefe]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

Question: I discovered this on Reddit, explaining recent Irish electoral history. Accurate?

[DCI Harry Batt]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

Is this the old thread renamed?

Ah, yeah, must be.

[Borracho]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

PJ Mara has died.

[DCI Harry Batt]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

A sort of Bernard Ingham / Alastair Campbell, for FF?

[Diable Rouge]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

Pretty much, we're talking the Eighties, so not as slickly professional as his New Labour equivalent, but yes, he was essentially Haughey's handler. Meanwhile, Labour show they're well able to pull strokes also, with Burton appointing the well-known union leader David Begg to a state board.

[Diable Rouge]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

TonTon wrote: Is this the old thread renamed?

Ah, yeah, must be.

Yes, the Shinners are well down on last year's peak, and the only question appears to be who'll be Enda's mudguard for the next five years.

[anton pulisov]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

jefe wrote: Question: I discovered this on Reddit, explaining recent Irish electoral history. Accurate?

Yes, Fianna Fail are a populist party with a history of buying off the electorate and driving the economy off a cliff. Bertie wasn't the first. Jack Lynch got elected in 1977 by promising to abolish car tax. He left the country in a financial dire straits. Yet he is still revered in Cork, because he is from Cork. This is how the Irish electorate thinks.

Fine Gael are less populist than Fianna Fail, the latter of whom are masters of opposition. FF will oppose anything the government comes up with, even the most sensible ideas. Contrast that with Fine Gael who, when they were in opposition in the late 80s and early 90s, adopted something called the Tallaght Strategy, which involved openly supporting government policy when they viewed it to be in the national interest. Fianna Fail never agrees with the government on anything. They spin and take a populist line every time. National interest isn't in their vocabulary.

Fine Gael want to turn Ireland into a right wing, christian conservative country run by old men in grey suits. I don't agree with their principles, but at least they have principles. I'd never vote for Fine Gael, but I'd still prefer them over Fianna Fail, who turn the country into a banana republic every time they get into power and cause waves of mass emigration.

The party that Fianna Fail can best be compared to is the ANC. Both are opportunistic shysters who filled a post-colonial power vacuum.

This is what I mean when I say that competence is more important than left-right ideology in Irish politics. Lack of competence on the part of FF is what caused the Celtic Tiger to spin out of control and turn into an economic Hindenburg.

[Borracho]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

TonTon wrote: A sort of Bernard Ingham / Alastair Campbell, for FF?

A bit more of a smoothie than either of them, though being more charming than Bernard Ingham isn't exactly a high bar to jump over.

His two most famous quotes were "Uno Duce, una voce" and "No more nibbling at my leader's bum."

[Borracho]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

I don't see any meaningful differences between FG and FF to be honest. FF have done more damage to the country than FG because they have been in power much more often. If FG had had 55 years out of 80 (or whatever the figure is) at the wheel, things wouldn't have turned out very differently, if at all.

Each party needs the other to survive, to have something to define itself against when chasing the 65% of voters who are right-wing.