Irish Times

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

well there's a bit of a point to that. Bertie was really really good at all of the things that varoufakis is patently really terrible at.

[anton pulisov]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

Like driving a country off a financial cliff.

[Borracho]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

The Awesome Berbaslug!!! wrote: Bertie was really really good at all of the things that varoufakis is patently really terrible at.

Buying elections? Making an entire national economy wholly dependent on one sector? Lying through one's teeth?

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

sure. and lots of other things too. Bertie was very good at getting people to agree to things. He got them to agree to that northern deal, and he managed to complete negotiations for an EU constitution, that didn't necessarily go anywhere, but getting that far was the equivalent of room temperature fusion.

The big problem I would have there though is that bertie was very good at bringing together two sides. If he were in varoufakis' shoes he would be in a situation where he was being grilled by the other side, and we've seen enough of him to know he's not quite as good at that.

That said, bertie would score very highly on interpersonal, and manipulation skills. I mean how else did he manage to take over fianna fail and run it for so well for so long? Varoufakis was very good at presenting his case to the public at large, or at least the proportion of the public that tended to agree with him. Greece needed someone who was very good within the negotiating room.

I think that the optimal route for syriza would have been to stress that they were entirely different to what had gone before. How sick they were of the way that greece was run, and that they were focused on building a new greece. A modern Greek economy based on exporting within europe, a fully functioning taxation system, supporting an affordable level of government spending, which is targeted on the basis of need rather than political patronage. I think that broadly speaking covers a lot of their goals.

They should then have asked for the EU's help in overhauling as much of the greek society as they could, as quickly as possible, with special emphasis on tax collecting. Particularly with respect to ferreting out untaxed income moved abroad. The EU would need to help out, because Syriza are the only group without ties to the old system, and are the only people who are going to actually reform things.

That would involve giving them some leeway, and having a generally positive relationship with them in public, while continually stressing the need to reform. It would involve them making allowances for the costs of reform, and relax the fiscal thumbscrews a bit, because it's killing the economy, which would involve lending them some money, and it would involve them making positive noises that the debt will be reduced if reform targets are met. Syriza needed the EU to operate with both the carrot and stick to maintain domestic momentum for reform.

Then they could make the point that at some point, If greece is going to become a proper modern country, something is going to have to be done about the debt mountain, and sell it as Greece paying as many cent on the Euro as possible, rather than running the risk of losing all of it.

That way you make your newness a powerful weapon, rather than a cause for concern, you get the EU onside, because you recognize that a lot of the reforms they want to make are probably for the long term good of your society and economy, and what you want anyway. That way you get some leeway on keeping the bits that you want to keep, or structuring your new system the way you want to.

I don't know how well Syriza presented themselves to the EU, I don't know what the predisposition of the EU to hear what they were saying, but it certainly didn't involve the finance minister calling the EU terrorists. (regardless of whether that was true)

Bertie was very good at the other way of doing things in Europe, and things went relatively smoothly.

[anton pulisov]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

I think that the optimal route for syriza would have been to stress that they were entirely different to what had gone before. How sick they were of the way that greece was run, and that they were focused on building a new greece. A modern Greek economy based on exporting within europe, a fully functioning taxation system, supporting an affordable level of government spending, which is targeted on the basis of need rather than political patronage. I think that broadly speaking covers a lot of their goals.

They should then have asked for the EU's help in overhauling as much of the greek society as they could, as quickly as possible, with special emphasis on tax collecting. Particularly with respect to ferreting out untaxed income moved abroad. The EU would need to help out, because Syriza are the only group without ties to the old system, and are the only people who are going to actually reform things.

This is exactly what Varoufakis did. And the Eurogroup ministers told him that moving ahead on tax reform before the memorandum was agreed would constitute unilateral action that would blow up the negotiations. And then the Eurogroup proceeded to draw out the negotiations for as long a possible.

Greece could have sent Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, Bertie or any other cartoon character to the Eurogroup instead of Varoufakis. It wouldn't have mattered. Schäuble had his plan and he was sticking to it.

As for Bertie and his role in the North. The great progress in the North was due to Labour coming to power in the UK and letting George Mitchell run the entire negotiations. The Tories would never have let an American run the peace talks. Bertie, well he happened to (a) be in power at the time and (b) was not John Bruton.

[Diable Rouge]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

Still finely-balanced in the race for Taoiseach:

FG 25% (-3)
FF 18% (-2)
SF 18% (0)
Lab 8% (+1)
Ind 25% (+2)
Greens 2% (0)
Soc Dems 2% (new)
Renua 1% (0)
PBP 1% (+1)

[anton pulisov]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

Soc Dems 2% (new)
Renua 1% (0)

Victory.

[Tubby Isaacs]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

Fine Gael have got to be favourites to put something together, haven't they?

[Tubby Isaacs]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

Greece could have sent Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, Bertie or any other cartoon character to the Eurogroup instead of Varoufakis. It wouldn't have mattered. Schäuble had his plan and he was sticking to it.

Right, but not France or Italy?

[DCI Harry Batt]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

It's the "Ind" on 25% that means the thing is unreadable without further info.

[Diable Rouge]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

Tubby Isaacs wrote: Fine Gael have got to be favourites to put something together, haven't they?

Undoubtedly - if FF baulk at second captain status though, Kenny will be dependent on a '48 style arrangement of FG, Lab, SD, Renua and independents.

[Diable Rouge]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

TonTon wrote: It's the "Ind" on 25% that means the thing is unreadable without further info.

How it translates.

[anton pulisov]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

Can you sum that up?

[DCI Harry Batt]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

"It's complicated"

Thanks, DR.

[Diable Rouge]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

Did you hear the one about the water tax that cost more than it earned, and effectively wrecked the giveaway budget plans?

[Diable Rouge]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

Man overboard already in Renua.

[loose cannon]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

It's wonderfully amusing that the man who has single handedly royally shafted FG's election hopes is larging it up in Brussels.
Phil Hogan, the big picture man, is responsible for the Frankenstein that is Irish Water, a FG made monster that has broken free of it's master and now roams the land terrifying the electorate. Those who have paid feel like suckers and those who have not are even more opposed than ever.

[Borracho]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

Hogan will apparently be paid about €334,000 next year when assorted top-up payments, sweeteners and incentives are taken into account.

[Diable Rouge]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

Poor Lucinda, struggling to get attention from the Irish Times!

[anton pulisov]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

Jesus, very hard hitting interview there from the Irish Times.

She is so full of crap, I don't know where to start. Howe about where she criticises Enda Kenny for being a career politician who spent his whole life in the Dail. Speaking from her years of working experience outside of politics, no doubt.

I really think a new law needs to be passed that says that nobody can be elected to office until the age of 50.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

If we're going to go down the Italian route, can we at least go all the way and have an exception for really hot birds who have slept with the taoiseach?

[anton pulisov]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

The Irish Times went almost two days before consulting Lucinda Creighton's opinion.

[Borracho]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

More bad news for Renua.

http://www.thejournal.ie/jonathan-irwin-renua-2-2253983-Aug2015/

[Toro Toro]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

It looks like Waterford Whispers News' lawyer picked the wrong week to stop drinking.

[loose cannon]

The 2016 Irish election is over!

Is that man sensitive or what?

Ross O Carroll Kelly has been brilliant recently with the super power wig.

With that level of absurdity, Paul Howard has assumed the mantle of a latter day Flann O'Brien.