Someone Has To Do It: US Elections 2020

[Incandenza]

I voted already, I don't have to care about this.

[Hot Pepsi]

The debates are always stupid. It’s for people who vote based on the candidate’s personality.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Which is what percentage of the electorate? 25%... 50%... 75%?

[Hot Pepsi]

Of the people who actually vote, I’d guess it’s about 25%.

[ursus arctos]

Nowhere near that now.

Maybe 5 percent.of the electorate, so 7-8 of those who vote.

Used to be higher, yes

[Incandenza]

Reading that the mute has not been used so far. I had a feeling that would happen, they'd say that they could use it, but wouldn't actually do it.

[Nocturnal Submission]

Well this is 1000% better than the last debate but it's not of a particularly high quality, to no-one's surprise I guess. It's two men who live on the planet Non Sequitur.

[Hot Pepsi]

Nowhere near that now.

Maybe 5 percent.of the electorate, so 7-8 of those who vote.

Used to be higher, yes

Right. This year is different and I think the percentage of people who imagine themselves to be genuinely open to either candidate before the conventions (to pick an arbitrary cut off) has been getting rapidly smaller since W.

[Nocturnal Submission]

"Filthy".

[Nocturnal Submission]

Not really sure what to say about that. Trump lied without shame, as per, while Biden addressed the questions, albeit slightly unconvincingly on occasion. A draw, I expect.

[San Bernardhinault]

I think that was sufficiently non-terrible that if this election's dynamic shifts to Trump it won't be because of that debate. They now only have 11 days to find a way to shift things, and no more big set-pieces that everyone will watch.

[San Bernardhinault]

And, more substantively, Biden showed that he's still perfectly capable as a generic politician rather than a senile incompetent drooling relic. If anyone was worried about that, I think he's probably put that to rest.

Trump managed to not be shouty and interrupty, mostly. Although not completely, when dealing with a black woman. Trump spent a lot of time focusing on Fox Newsy kinds of issues, like Hunter's $3.5 million, which I think most people will just assume is blathering nonsense.

I obviously come in with prejudged positions, but it's hard to see this being a big win for Trump. At best it might stop people jumping ship. We probably won't see Trump -14 against Biden in polls again.

[tee rex]

Could have been a lot worse. Biden stumbled a few times but didn't go full verbal incoherence. Frustrating that he can't think on his feet, but that's not new, and it won't matter much if he gets the job. Still, when Trump says he's the least racist person in the room, it's a gift demanding a put-down and I bet millions of us shouted them at the screen, on Biden's behalf ("I guess you're not in the room, folks", "must be a tiny room" or a dozen variations thereof).

Low point was probably being asked what they have to say about minority experience and Trump talks about himself, Biden takes the bait and the question is ignored. At least Biden did well with his "hands on wheel" comments, quite a convincing show of empathy there.

Obviously Welker won, I assume there's a hashtag for her, sums it all up that the most impressive candidate was the moderator.

[ursus arctos]

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1319474905407107075

[Hot Pepsi]

The Wall Street Journal, that well-known leftist rag.

[ChrisJ]

Yeah.

And I wish every grade school science teacher would take kids outside, if they can, to try to make a scale model of the solar system. Or at least show them this:

https://youtu.be/Kj4524AAZdE
https://youtu.be/pR5VJo5ifdE

This one on atoms is good too:
https://youtu.be/KgSGlbV0kZo

Agreed. Outdoor education isn more than toasting marshmallows or building dens. I always take children outside for that sort of thing. It works better with any big scales.

Those are great. There's a good Brian Cox clip on a similar theme.

Half-term/next lockdown homeschooling idea. You get a similar "wow" moment with geological time. Get the children to form a human timeline, 1 person = 1 year and they discover that their teachers and parents births don't fit on without chalking extra distance. They're always amazed at the gap between the cluster of things they know and to historical events like say the Great Fire of London. Then ask them to work out how long, on a scale of roughly 1 person/1m = 1 year, the line would have to be to stretch back to the dinosaurs.

Edit - Sorry, forgot this was the election thread. I just get excited by that sort of thing.

[Satchmo Distel]

Could have been a lot worse. Biden stumbled a few times but didn't go full verbal incoherence. Frustrating that he can't think on his feet, but that's not new, and it won't matter much if he gets the job. Still, when Trump says he's the least racist person in the room, it's a gift demanding a put-down and I bet millions of us shouted them at the screen, on Biden's behalf ("I guess you're not in the room, folks", "must be a tiny room" or a dozen variations thereof)

And he said that to a the moderator, who is a woman of color.

If Trump had been that controlled in the first debate, and shown up for the second, then maybe he'd be fewer points behind, but that would just be the less rabid former Trump voters coming back home, in the same way that some have been swinging back to him over the SCOTUS hearings because the nominee looked suitably Stepford Wife on camera, with the kids, etc. And of course it's too late to win back those who have already voted.

Meanwhile, I read that on SCOTUS, Biden is just promising an independent review rather than any action. That could neutralize the court packing issue, I guess.

[Tactical Genius]

And he said that to a the moderator, who is a woman of color.

There are many black people who believe a man who spent the 70's campaigning against integration and the 80's and 90's authoring legislation to lock up as many black people as possible is at least as racist as Trump.

[Bruno]

Well, pretty much everybody was racist, or did/said racist stuff, from the 70s to the 90s. You have to allow for the possibility that people can change. If racism can't be overcome at the individual level there's no point hoping it will be overcome at the structural level.

[San Bernardhinault]

More to the point, Trump didn't say he was less racist than his opponent. He said he was less racist than anyone else in the room.

Which includes Welker.

And, hilariously, also includes Melania, which is something someone ought to ask him about.

[Tactical Genius]

Well, pretty much everybody was racist, or did/said racist stuff, from the 70s to the 90s.

Really, were you racist from the 70's to the 90's?

I assume you no longer are, and if that is the case you would be happy to share what caused a change of mind and maybe try to atone for past misdeed during the most ignorant period of your life.

You have to allow for the possibility that people can change. If racism can't be overcome at the individual level there's no point hoping it will be overcome at the structural level.

Joe Biden had at no stage convincingly acknowledged his past behaviour which has led to mass incarceration. In it was clear the effects of his legislation when he became VP in 2008 and he did little to reverse it whilst in power for 8 years.
Like the Clintons in 2016, he has tried to dodge accountability by blaming black people for forcing this legislation on him and others for slipping in the most extreme measures in that bill.

[Tactical Genius]

More to the point, Trump didn't say he was less racist than his opponent. He said he was less racist than anyone else in the room.

Which includes Welker.

And, hilariously, also includes Melania, which is something someone ought to ask him about.

Dunno, I have been watching quite a few interviews with Ice Cube this week on Youtube where he is being attacked for his contract for Black America by black people using some White Supremecist talking points.

[Bruno]

The problem with racists in my experience is they almost never think they're racists, and the problem with racism (well one of the problems), especially since we collectively recognized that racism is bad, 'mkay, is that often enough racist acts or outcomes aren't engineered as such deliberately. Yes there are still people who think and act that way, but it's also a lot of convenient or myopic overlooking of racist outcomes. So in the latter cases it's an easy charge to deny and therefore an ineffective charge to make.

Trump is a pathological liar to the extent that he probably doesn't realize when he's lying or not, so he may really be convinced he isn't a racist. He is, obviously, but calling him on it is about the least effective thing. You'd need to find a swastika tattoo to get anywhere. As for Biden, even if he has retained whatever racism he harbored back in the 70s and 80s, he seems well enough aware that the world and his party have moved on, and I doubt he would try to spend political capital in a regressive direction where racial equality is concerned.

[Bruno]

Really, were you racist from the 70's to the 90's?

I assume you no longer are, and if that is the case you would be happy to share what caused a change of mind and maybe try to atone for past misdeed during the most ignorant period of your life.

I suppose I was blissfully unaware of racism to about age eight but was surrounded by it from then until college. I certainly recall feeling phobic, which is how kids will generally feel when they're surrounded by it and don't see adults pushing back against it. My parents and extended family I would describe as casual racists, though my extended family were far worse than my parents. So that made me a casual racist too. Like many of my generation, college was a waking-up experience and cured me of the prior phobia; it was a much more racially integrated experience than pre-college. I don't recall ever feeling that racism or racial inequality were right or just outcomes. I think the worst it got for me was an unexamined inclination to blame people for their problems, which is what I routinely heard adults doing, and a failure to understand hostility toward white people.

My memory of the 70s and 80s is that there was very little policing or calling out of racist behaviors and even less recognition that structural racism hadn't ended with the Civil Rights movement.

[Tactical Genius]

The problem with racists in my experience is they almost never think they're racists,

Nah, they know.

and the problem with racism (well one of the problems), especially since we collectively recognized that racism is bad, 'mkay,

Sorry, I don't agree. People can say what they like, its their actions that count.

is that often enough racist acts or outcomes aren't engineered as such deliberately. Yes there are still people who think and act that way, but it's also a lot of convenient or myopic overlooking of racist outcomes. So in the latter cases it's an easy charge to deny and therefore an ineffective charge to make.

Yes, they are, it is structured in a way that those in the dominant society can have plausible deniability and play dumb.
People know it when they see it. Those in the dominant society just brush it off and find ways of self-justification.

Trump is a pathological liar to the extent that he probably doesn't realize when he's lying or not, so he may really be convinced he isn't a racist. He is, obviously, but calling him on it is about the least effective thing.

Stop shifting it back to Trump, let's talk Biden

As for Biden, even if he has retained whatever racism he harbored back in the 70s and 80s,

IF, can you provide evidence to the contrary, I like the way you are trying to remove a decade of his bigotry. Biden's Law was in 1994. His comments on his first impressions of Obama was in the mid 2000's

[/quote] he seems well enough aware that the world and his party have moved on, and I doubt he would try to spend political capital in a regressive direction where racial equality is concerned.[/QUOTE]

Have they really, The Democrats have a Mayor and a Governor presiding over the Taylor debacle and have been pretty Muted in the condemnation of Cameron burying the case.
The Democrats Presidential nomination is a triple Platinum plated OG racist and his running mate is the poster girl for locking up black people at state Level.

If it wasn't for the Pandemic, Trump would have wiped the floor with Biden as he has too many skeletons in his cuboard and he lacks the bluster and the ability of Trump to bluff his way past difficult questions.