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Someone Has To Do It: US Elections 2020

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    I also think that I read that Breyer wants out and is just hanging on for the chance to be replaced by someone less terrible that Neomi Rao.

    So Biden might have two appointments to make early, which makes having the Senate all the more important. But even then, it also means that Joe Manchin might have a sort-of-veto unless the Democrats make some real shock gains. So - again - you're more likely to end up with a Merrick Garland harmless figure than a left wing equivalent of Gorsuch or Kavanaugh. And that would be true no matter which Democrat was in the White House.
    Last edited by San Bernardhinault; 21-08-2020, 12:31.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Tactical Genius View Post

      Note. No mention of the benefit for black people. This is important in the light of demonstrations that have been taking place the last three months.
      Benign neglect at its best.
      i did put 'etc etc, etc,' -- it was a long day ---

      I can't crank out any specific policies, but I'd like to hope that a biden whitehouse would at least listen to the protests and try to come up w/ something productive. It would not be perfect, but certainly a better scenario that 4 more yrs of trump.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Cal Alamein View Post

        i did put 'etc etc, etc,' -- it was a long day ---

        I can't crank out any specific policies, but I'd like to hope that a biden whitehouse would at least listen to the protests and try to come up w/ something productive. It would not be perfect, but certainly a better scenario that 4 more yrs of trump.
        This was a criticism of the Democratic Party and not you.
        you wouldn't be expect to crank out policies as they do not exist and according to Kamala are not forthcoming.

        Biden has listened and his responses to the demonstrations is to pledge more money to the police.

        ​​​​​​I get you all find this fustrating as you really want to vote for Biden with a clear conscience and I keep popping up reminding you of the implications.

        Comment


          I just wish you'd be more clear when you say things like 'no benefit for black people'? What exactly are you looking for? Like 'black specific' policies or programs? I'm a bit lost.

          Comment


            Originally posted by WOM View Post
            I just wish you'd be more clear when you say things like 'no benefit for black people'? What exactly are you looking for? Like 'black specific' policies or programs? I'm a bit lost.
            I posted a list of polices for black people previously. They were short and very clear. I am more than happy to repost if you so wish. Or hopefully someone can link to it who is better a searching than I am

            Harris and Biden have made very specific policy promises for other minorities. Also note these other minorities never said. " Thanks Joe for the promises, but what about the black folk?"
            Last edited by Tactical Genius; 21-08-2020, 16:38.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Tactical Genius View Post

              This was a criticism of the Democratic Party and not you.
              you wouldn't be expect to crank out policies as they do not exist and according to Kamala are not forthcoming.

              Biden has listened and his responses to the demonstrations is to pledge more money to the police.

              ​​​​​​I get you all find this fustrating as you really want to vote for Biden with a clear conscience and I keep popping up reminding you of the implications.
              Got it totally. The Dem party folks in power suck to no end and in no way will I vote for Biden w/ a clear conscience. Just don't want more scorched earth from trump and his quislings.

              Biden is a pathetic stop gap and I sure as hell hope the young vote in huge numbers to scare the shit out of the Dem hierarchy so they can retire w/ their millions and the party can be drastically made over.

              Comment


                Originally posted by WOM View Post
                I just wish you'd be more clear when you say things like 'no benefit for black people'? What exactly are you looking for? Like 'black specific' policies or programs? I'm a bit lost.
                Page 167 of this thread. I would be interested in your thoughts as I actually had you and Bruno in mind when I posted it.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Tactical Genius View Post

                  This was a criticism of the Democratic Party and not you.
                  you wouldn't be expect to crank out policies as they do not exist and according to Kamala are not forthcoming.

                  Biden has listened and his responses to the demonstrations is to pledge more money to the police.

                  ​​​​​​I get you all find this fustrating as you really want to vote for Biden with a clear conscience and I keep popping up reminding you of the implications.
                  TG, they had children's toy blocks reading B L M behind Elizabeth Warren in her speech, I really don't know what else you're looking for.

                  Comment


                    Hahaha, she spoilt it by obscuring the B with her shoulder.

                    On a serious note Cal, many of the most egregious incidents of Anti Black violence have been in democratic cities with Democratic police chiefs, mayor's, DAs many of them black or non white and their performance does not really bode well as a vision for a Democratic government.
                    All this shit isn't just Trump's fault.

                    ​​​​​

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Tactical Genius View Post

                      On a serious note Cal, many of the most egregious incidents of Anti Black violence have been in democratic cities with Democratic police chiefs, mayor's, DAs many of them black or non white and their performance does not really bode well as a vision for a Democratic government.
                      All this shit isn't just Trump's fault.

                      ​​​​​
                      Sadly that is very very true. I live in Albuquerque which has a very progressive mayor, but the Albuquerque Police Department is corrupt as hell, violent as hell to any of the protesters and it's hard to seriously believe that the city Council will make sweeping changes to curb that shit.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Tactical Genius View Post

                        Page 167 of this thread. I would be interested in your thoughts as I actually had you and Bruno in mind when I posted it.
                        Ah, thank you. Will respond.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Cal Alamein View Post

                          Sadly that is very very true. I live in Albuquerque which has a very progressive mayor, but the Albuquerque Police Department is corrupt as hell, violent as hell to any of the protesters and it's hard to seriously believe that the city Council will make sweeping changes to curb that shit.
                          Saw a story yesterday about a bill introduced in the California legislature that would punish police officers who stood by and did nothing to stop acts of police misconduct, obviously introduced after George Floyd's killing. California Democrats have a supermajority in the legislature, and the governor is a Democrat. Police interests lobbied against it, and the bill didn't make it out of committee. The legislator that introduced it refuses to talk about it anymore. They'll be interested and want to do something when there is media focus on police abuse, but they lose courage really quickly.

                          Comment


                            Police unions and prison guard unions are arguably two of the most powerful political groups nationwide, and particularly in California. It's frankly immoral.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Tactical Genius View Post

                              1.) THE AGENDA MUST ADDRESS BLACK PEOPLE AND ONLY BLACK PEOPLE Any discussion of addressing Black people's needs must focus solely on Black people. While that seems obvious, the problem is government and media have embarked on a campaign to detour all efforts to focus on Black people by diverting attention away from Black people and putting it on trick words like "people of color" and "minorities" (which they have twisted so much that "minorities" also includes white people; women, gays, white identifying Latinos, etc) as their strategy to deny Black people resources.

                              [Politically, unacceptable. Practically, unachievable. All black people? All 'full blood' black people? Black people who can prove their descendancy from slaves vs those who can't? Canada's experience with defining who is First Nation, and who is not, should be a warning sign.]

                              2.) BLACK SOCIETY'S TOP PRIORITY IS ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT Virtually all of Black America's ills can be traced directly back to the lack of economic resources. From education to health care to housing, lack of money is the prime factor behind those issues. America has waged a never ending war to prevent Black people from having economic resources for the exploitative benefit of the rest of society.
                              There needs to be a Marshall Plan for the descendants of American slaves patterned after the Marshall Plan that was initiated in Japan after World War 2. Public and private entities must all be incentivized and required to participate as practically all of America's public and private entities have benefited from keeping Black people economically suppressed.

                              [Love it, but I really don't know what it would look like. A Marshall Plan that selectively helps Black people? Which Black people? Only for the descendants of American slaves? How would you substantiate or prove that? Participate in what manner; hiring quotas? Tax breaks? Incentives? It's very interesting, but I don't know how it would work.]

                              3.) MAKE DISMANTLING OF SYSTEMIC WHITE SUPREMACY PUBLIC POLICY The tradition of America is to practice white supremacy while pretending that white supremacy doesn't exist. They pretend that they simply don't understand why the wealth gap, income gap, incarceration rate and health care greatly favor white people and consistently penalize Black people. America spent 5 decades pursuing a racially fabricated policy of a "war on drugs." It's time to make public policy of a "war on white supremacy" in all it's forms. In recent years, if you are a pimp helping women to become prostitutes you are now classified as a "human trafficker." Malcolm X said white supremacist violence should be prosecuted as an international war crime. The fact that pimping has now been elevated to that level but the original sin of white supremacy has not is a crime against human decency.

                              [Agree. Should be 'easy' enough to implement if the political will is there, but will take another 50+ years to bear fruit, I fear. But maybe not. How about we start with the police/judicial/prison system and work outward?]

                              4.) WHITE SUPREMACIST AND POLICE VIOLENCE IS A HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION When China or countries in the Middle East have police execute people based on their race, ethnicity or political ideology the United States calls those "human rights violations" and the United States has invaded countries for that offense. America didn't listen to excuses from these governments as to why it was acceptable. The United States needs to be held to the same standards. America has been using police to terrorize and execute Black people, with the support of racist district attorney's and judges, in order to sustain systemic white supremacy. When you have systemic racial practices it demands systemic remedies.

                              [Biggest challenge; greatest benefit, in my opinion. Changing attitudes would take a generation. It will have to start at the bottom and keep being reinforced until anyone 30+ ages out. So, as I say, 50 years at least.]

                              5.) SCHOOLS CAN NO LONGER BE WEAPONIZED AGAINST BLACK CHILDREN Schools, both public and private, operate on a standard practice of targeting Black children, from as early as head start, to remove them from the classroom. The typical strategy is to claim the child has a learning disability or is a disciplinary problem and that there are only three solutions to the problem: put the child in special education to handicap his learning, put him on psychotropic drugs to alter his brain chemistry or have him suspended from school and even arrested. This leads to the disproportionate number of Black students who drop out of school which makes them far more likely to end up in prison. White children who express the same behaviors don't receive the same treatment. Homeschooling, for capable parents, and cultivation of Black education academies that meet reasonable education criteria are the best method for addressing white supremacy in the classroom.

                              [Agree completely.]

                              6.) REMOVE THE PRISONS, MONUMENTS AND PHYSICAL INSTITUTIONS OF WHITE SUPREMACY Black people pay taxes and yet our tax dollars do something to us that doesn't happen to anyone else: we are required to pay for white supremacists to sit in front of our courthouses, our schools, our parks and our city halls. We have prisons that are setup primarily to serve as the new plantations of America, via the 13th amendment loophole. In a cruel irony, many states are closing schools but building prisons and the laws are engineered to facilitate this vicious cycle. No Black person should have to drive by prison while schools are being closed nor should they have to go to a city hall, court or school and walk by the image of a human rights violator. Symbols of white supremacy belong in a museum. Not in the public square.

                              [Agree completely.]

                              7.) 20% OF PUBLIC AND PRIVATE CONTRACTS SHOULD BE RESERVED FOR BLACK BUSINESS America has done business strictly along ethnic lines. It has embarked on a sustained campaign of bombing Black business districts like the various Black Wall Streets as well as using racial regulations to target Black businesses today for destruction. All of this is done to protect white businesses and preserve white economic privilege.
                              To correct this, the public and private sectors, that have all profited off of economically disenfranchising Black citizens should repay their debt by instituting a minimum mandatory 20% contracting requirement with businesses that are Black sole proprietorships or are corporations that are 75% Black owned.
                              City contracts, municipal bonds, equity stakes in these private companies, tax credits and/or exemptions from taxes owed, land grants and set asides, 0% financing as well as direct cash disbursements are all suitable methods of addressing these debts.
                              The U.S. government was able to instantly agree to allocate $10 trillion to deal with the Covid-19 outbreak of 2020. It did not require a study, a commission or vote from the general population. It was done because it was deemed necessary. It's an insult to tell Black people that all of a sudden all types of examinations and delays are needed before we can be given what a virus was given without a thought.
                              [It's a start, but America doesn't like 'quotas' or anything that sounds like one. Hell, they didn't like the ERA. They don't like their equality spelled out, enshrined in law, or institutionalized. This will be a hard sell.]

                              Comment


                                I've seen a few things talking about Biden's empathy and how favorably he compares to Trump in that respect, how he'll be a good leader because he cares about people. I'm not saying that's not important, but I really fear the Democrats falling into the same trap of making their case against Trump that he's not nice, rather than actually anything about what they want to do. There is a piece in the current NYRB that tells Democrats what they should be doing through reviewing two books, and which you never hear any of them saying themselves. This comes from Joseph O'Neill, and it's really frustrating seeing a novelist articulate this instead of an actual Democratic figure.

                                https://www.nybooks.com/articles/202...ave-the-world/

                                What happens to that energy when Trump goes? How will the Democratic Party fare without it?

                                The long-held approach of the Democratic establishment won’t solve this problem. That approach—to minimize interparty differences in the hope of winning over politically disengaged voters, to crawl upward one step at a time while the escalator is moving downward—has enabled the GOP to win most elections for the last twenty-two years. It is self-evidently unfit for the strategic purpose of gaining and exercising long-term power. Recent events have made a return to Democratic government-by-stasis unthinkable. The Black Lives Matter protests and the disastrous Republican response to the coronavirus crisis have budged even the famously stick-in-the-mud Biden into recognizing that a new politics is necessary. If, as seems likely, he wins in November, his administration and its supporters will need a new, broadly acceptable partisan ideology in order to win a series of subsequent elections.

                                Two clarifications are called for. “Partisan” does not connote gratuitous animosity against one’s political opponents. It refers to embracing a party, and a party identity, as the prime means of advancing a political agenda. It involves identifying the opposing party (rather than its supporters or even its leading figures) as your stated adversary, and waging a perpetual campaign of negative partisanship against that adversary. When the Conservatives in the United Kingdom under Margaret Thatcher and John Major retained power from 1979 to 1997, they consistently characterized the rival Labour Party—which for most of that period was ably led by Neil Kinnock and then John Smith—as unfit for power. Republicans have explicitly bashed Democrats for years, with some success. In a two-horse race, it helps to hobble the other horse.

                                Second, “ideology,” in this sense, isn’t exhausted by the concept of a policy agenda. But if Democrats want to win elections repeatedly, they must enact policies that are both effective and popular with Democrats. The emphasis refers to an insight that for years has been mislaid by the left but not by the right: an American political party can’t consistently win elections, midterm and state-level races in particular, without the sustained and vigorous grassroots participation of its base. What about swing voters? They don’t vote much in midterms, and in this polarized era have shrunk to such small numbers that their influence on national elections is much diminished. Swing voters will support you if the big outcomes—jobs and the economy, in particular—are favorable and if your branding strategy (positive and negative) is strong. Base turnout, though, won’t happen unless the grassroots identifies strongly with the party, is united by a common purpose, and is determined to win. What can be done to make this a reality?

                                Comment


                                  Cornell West was going hard at it today on Democracy Now on YouTube. Saying that the Dems think that they can talk about race without talking about poverty or the fact that the entire system is broken. He's right. The very few bits of the DNC convention I have seen have been a facade of diversity. In the bit where representatives for each of the the states nominated Biden by remote video, each state had a Black, native American or Latino person doing he nominating. These people aren't allowed near the levers of power, but they get to go on TV and nominate Joe Biden. Joe Biden, who has replaced ​​​​​​"founding fathers" with the "civil rights movement" as the vague ancient thingy to invoke to make people feel warm and fuzzy about unity.

                                  The DNC is doing with diversity what the record industry does with independent music. Figure out how to churn out a generic knock-off version of it and use it to further consolidate power.

                                  ​​​​​

                                  ​​​​
                                  Last edited by anton pulisov; 21-08-2020, 23:45.

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by WOM View Post

                                    [It's a start, but America doesn't like 'quotas' or anything that sounds like one. Hell, they didn't like the ERA. They don't like their equality spelled out, enshrined in law, or institutionalized. This will be a hard sell.]
                                    WOM, numerous times you have taken me to task about when i mention reparations or the black agenda. Claimng out message is incoherant and "all over the place".

                                    I have given you want you want and all you can come up with "its a start"?

                                    What kind of start god, or bad?
                                    What bits do you agree with and what don't you agree with and why?

                                    You say, "America doesn't like 'quotas' or anything that sounds like one". Which Americans are you referring to?
                                    You say, "They don't like their equality spelled out, enshrined in law, or institutionalized." you clearly have not been acqauinted with the US constitution, its various amendments and numerous Civil rights laws of the past 200 years.

                                    "This will be a hard sell" Are you sold. forget anyone else I am only interested in what you think and your opinions, we can discuss the wider public later.

                                    Comment


                                      TG, I commented on each of the proposals separately, in square brackets, after each individual point. The one you're commenting on is my response to the last point, but it fell outside the shaded area. That's not my response to them all.

                                      Comment


                                        Originally posted by WOM View Post
                                        TG, I commented on each of the proposals separately, in square brackets, after each individual point. The one you're commenting on is my response to the last point, but it fell outside the shaded area. That's not my response to them all.
                                        Ah, apologies, I assumed the whole shaded area was a quote so didn't read.

                                        Comment


                                          No worries.

                                          Comment


                                            Coming back to your post WOM, thanks for taking the time and i'll do my best to answer your questions.


                                            1.
                                            Originally posted by WOM View Post
                                            [Politically, unacceptable. Practically, unachievable. All black people? All 'full blood' black people? Black people who can prove their descendancy from slaves vs those who can't? Canada's experience with defining who is First Nation, and who is not, should be a warning sign.]
                                            Black people as in descendants of American slavery. to qualify, you need to fulfil two criteria:

                                            You can trace your lineage to a slave in the USA, this should be easy to prove as Slavery did not end that long ago and quite detailed records exist.
                                            You have to prove you have identified as black on official documentation for at least the last 10 years. This will eliminate the $5 negroes and carpetbaggers who have one black distant ancestor by have been passing and identify as something else.

                                            Who is it politically unacceptable to?


                                            2.
                                            Originally posted by WOM View Post
                                            [Love it, but I really don't know what it would look like. A Marshall Plan that selectively helps Black people? Which Black people? Only for the descendants of American slaves? How would you substantiate or prove that? Participate in what manner; hiring quotas? Tax breaks? Incentives? It's very interesting, but I don't know how it would work.]
                                            I think I have already answered who will qualify in my previous answer.
                                            Personally, I think cash settlements would be the best first step forward, but the other options you mention are worth considering.

                                            3.
                                            Originally posted by WOM View Post
                                            [Agree. Should be 'easy' enough to implement if the political will is there, but will take another 50+ years to bear fruit, I fear. But maybe not. How about we start with the police/judicial/prison system and work outward?]
                                            I don't see why you need 50 years. Only took a couple of years between the crack epidemic kicking off and draconian laws being passed.
                                            The wheels of justice can move pretty quickly when it comes to punishing black people en-masse for perceived misdeeds, the same energy should into punishing white supremacists

                                            4.
                                            Originally posted by WOM View Post
                                            [Biggest challenge; greatest benefit, in my opinion. Changing attitudes would take a generation. It will have to start at the bottom and keep being reinforced until anyone 30+ ages out. So, as I say, 50 years at least.]
                                            Not really, putting people in jail will change attitudes real quick.
                                            Knowing public workers who use their positions to perpetrate acts of white supremacy will not only get them fired, but put them in jail will focus minds really quick. Ending Qualified immunity for police and anti-Karen laws is a good start.
                                            I don't really like to talk about personal experiences anymore on OTF (because I noticed it stifles debate) But as someone who very recently had an experience with a Karen, it is very annoying.

                                            7. There are a lot of these contract quotas in many cities and states already.

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                                              https://twitter.com/KBAndersen/status/1297974009209016331

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                                                [URL="https://twitter.com/TopherSpiro/status/1298009095405031424"]https://twitter.com/TopherSpiro/stat...09095405031424[/URL]

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                                                  I’ve just watched 10 minutes of RNC. Racist gun couple were amazingly comically racist - worried that black people will abolish their quiet suburbs. Then Kim Guilfoyle shouted insanely at an empty room. It was hilarious and terrifying. so terrifying that Steve Scalise seemed almost human after them.

                                                  Comment


                                                    Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View Post
                                                    I’ve just watched 10 minutes of RNC. Racist gun couple were amazingly comically racist - worried that black people will abolish their quiet suburbs. Then Kim Guilfoyle shouted insanely at an empty room. It was hilarious and terrifying. so terrifying that Steve Scalise seemed almost human after them.

                                                    There was a video piece about Trump's handling of the COVID-19 crisis that was jaw-droppingly deceitful.

                                                    Kimberly Guilfoyle is quite terrifying. If you told me that she was an advanced android I could well be convinced.

                                                    Comment

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