Antisemitism and contemporary politics

[Nefertiti2]

[URL]https://twitter.com/nadinebh_/status/1192917935301394432?s=21[/URL]

[Nefertiti2]

This is a good piece

[URL]https://twitter.com/tonylerman/status/1193217439632371712?s=21[/URL]

[Nefertiti2]

As is this

[URL]https://twitter.com/_seangriffiths/status/1194623745991643142?s=21[/URL]

[ad hoc]

Not sure how to link a Facebook post properly so have cut and pasted this. By Michael Rosen on his FB page today

Take this step by step folks.
In 2006 the editor of the Jewish Chronicle, Stephen Pollard, announced that there was a 'battle to save Western civilisation' and the 'enemy' was 'the Left in any form'.
In 2012, Pollard was 'delighted to host' an evening meeting with Nigel Farage.
In 2015, Pollard wrote a fiercely condemnatory article for the Daily Express about Margaret Hodge, deemed at the time to be a bit of a lefty for some quite punchy appearances as chair of the audit commission.
At around this time, one of the journalists on Pollard's paper, Alex Brummer [CORRECTION: Geoffrey Levy] wrote the famous article in the Mail which attacked Ed Miliband's father for being a Jewish marxist traitor. [NB Correction 2 - it was Alex Brummer who defended Levy's article a week later in the same paper]
Pollard announced that Miliband was 'toxic' for Jewish voters and a good deal of publicity went into claiming (perhaps correctly) that Jewish voters had stopped voting Labour, Miliband's views on Israel being cited as the reason.
All this was before Corbyn was elected leader.
Once Corbyn was elected, the 'Corbyn is an antisemite' narrative kicked in backed up by ideas that the Labour Party was itself totally and institutionally anisemitic - a narrative written up weekly by Pollard and his Political Editor, Lee Harpin in the Chronicle.
At times, I've argued with Harpin on twitter with the consequence that a few weeks ago he accused me of being a 'cheerleader for Soros'. I need hardly say that I am not a cheerleader for Soros though I have noted that Soros is used as a kind of cipher for the Nazi trope that Europe was being brought to its knees by international Jewish finance.
The rise of Trump, Bannon, Farage, Johnson, Orban and others represent the rise of what Bannon called 'economic nationalism'.
Farage has never been afraid to use classic antisemitic slurs in his radio interviews talking antagonistically about Soros, and the power of the Jewish lobby in the US etc etc. The Guardian and the Independent have highlighted these.
Now, just recently a guy called Yosef David has announced that he is going to stand for the Brexit Party (yes!) against Corbyn in his constituency of Islington North. David is Jewish. He is being given a lot of well-wishes by people who talk as if he has the hopes of the 'Jewish community' on his side.
Straightaway, Lee Harpin, scourge of Labour antisemitism has wished him 'Mazel Tov' (congratulations) on Twitter.
Think about that.
Lee Harpin, who has done all he can to expose what he sees as antisemitism in the Labour Party is congratulating someone who is supporting a leader who has come out with obvious and blatant antisemitic slurs.
David presumably thinks he's fighting antisemitism by supporting an antisemite.
It all rather does look as if these folks were never really interested in fighting antisemitism. They were either only interested in fighting antisemitism in the Labour Party or perhaps just 'fighting the Labour Party' - exactly as Pollard announced that he was going to do back in 2006.
Taking a longer wider view, what's going on here is an alignment of right wing forces which has the support of some Jews even if these right wing forces are happy to go in for classic antisemitic statements. This alignment sees Islam and the Left as 'the enemy' and will do battle with either or both in order to secure a new kind of nationalist capitalism - as they see it or call it (even if it's going to be as international as all capitalism is anyway).
What's been particularly sad and pathetic is seeing various kinds of liberal commentators eagerly gobbling up the faux fight against antisemitism, not realising that they are being taken for a ride by this new right talking antisemitism one day and claiming to fight it the next.

[Nefertiti2]

This is very scary

[URL]https://twitter.com/inthesedeserts/status/1196049423303892992?s=21[/URL]

as is the harassment some of the Jews against Boris are taking on Twitter

[Nefertiti2]

The phony antisemitism war is reaching a climax.

there are three participants.

the far right. They are violent antisemites and racists . They burn synagogues, smash Jewish cemeteries beat up Jews and issue death threats against Jewish MPs. They often profess affection for Israel because they also dislike Muslims and see Israel as justification for ( and perpetrators of) anti Muslim violence


the left. A few antisemites, who Mutter conspiracy theories on facebook . Largely a history of anti racism. Also historically the home of many Jews. A history of support for and criticism of Israel but since the occupation enters its 52nd year increasingly critical of Israel

the “ Jewish community” a vocal sector of British Jews very supportive of Israel increasingly Conservative in their politics.couster around the Jewish Chronicle and the Board of Deputies. Extremely vocal about the antisemitism from the Labour Party and Jeremy Corbyn. Relatively silent about the far right.
See for example:

[URL]https://twitter.com/ellmhm/status/1196104820190588931?s=21[/URL]

[Posty Webber]

The phony antisemitism war is reaching a climax.

there are three participants.

the far right. They are violent antisemites and racists . They burn synagogues, smash Jewish cemeteries beat up Jews and issue death threats against Jewish MPs. They often profess affection for Israel because they also dislike Muslims and see Israel as justification for ( and perpetrators of) anti Muslim violence


the left. A few antisemites, who Mutter conspiracy theories on facebook . Largely a history of anti racism. Also historically the home of many Jews. A history of support for and criticism of Israel but since the occupation enters its 52nd year increasingly critical of Israel

the “ Jewish community” a vocal sector of British Jews very supportive of Israel increasingly Conservative in their politics.couster around the Jewish Chronicle and the Board of Deputies. Extremely vocal about the antisemitism from the Labour Party and Jeremy Corbyn. Relatively silent about the far right.

I agree that the more overtly violent and terrifying form of anti semitism comes from the right, but the left version of it is greater than a couple of zany conspiracy theorists.

The modern left’s version of anti semitism sees Jews as being rich white men, and therefore emblematic of the quintessential, in-power oppressor. This is a swift gateway for laissez faire thinking on issues affecting Jews, and in my opinion is borne-out in these pages.

We’re caught between the hammer and the anvil.

Anyway, my general theory is that all white people from Christian, European backgrounds (I.e. the entire Western world) - including the completely irreligious/ashiest among them - have a fundamental, inherent distaste for Jewish people due to imagery deep down in their psyche (or perhaps passed on genetically if that’s even possible) that Jews ‘killed beautiful, blond Jesus’. This is completely subconscious, of course.

[Nefertiti2]

I'm Jewish. I have number of Jewish friends who are being hounded on social media by right -wing Jews for supporting the Labour Party.

The Right in Israel (and its allies in Britain) is prepared IMO to defend any kind of antisemitism as long as they support the occupation and the worst excesses of the Netanyahu regime.

See support for Bannon, Orbán, or in Britain the toleration of sections of the far right.

Criticising rich white men as rich white men is perfectly acceptable. Criticising rich white men as Jews is not. I find the attempt to erase the proud Jewish history of the anti-capitalist left from Bund to Forward, from Rosa Luxemburg to Kurt Eisner to Harold Pinter to Eli Valley is as much an assault on my Jewish identity as an attack on Israel.

[Posty Webber]

I know dude.

[Posty Webber]

Those so-called right-wing Jews are clearly fuckwits, but that doesn’t change the reality that is: everyone hates you even if they aren’t aware of it.

[Posty Webber]

Those so-called right-wing Jews are clearly fuckwits, but that doesn’t change the reality that is everyone hates you even if they aren’t aware of it.

Sorry - to extrapolate: those idiotic types (my dad is one of them as sees leftists as more of a threat than fascists) are simply victims of the greater syndrome, that is everyone’s hatred of Jews.

[Posty Webber]

Which feeds into the whole “Israel, right or wrong”.

[Nefertiti2]

Do you really think everyone hates you because you’re Jewish?

I think lots of people don’t care. There are various degrees of conscious and unconscious antisemitism and I’ve experienced both but I don’t think the world view you describe is universal.

Apart from anything else lots of Muslims come from a very different tradition-one of tolerance and also in the U.K. of understanding the refugee experience-which is to me anyway inseparable from my Jewish identity

[Hot Pepsi]

I agree that the more overtly violent and terrifying form of anti semitism comes from the right, but the left version of it is greater than a couple of zany conspiracy theorists.

The modern left’s version of anti semitism sees Jews as being rich white men, and therefore emblematic of the quintessential, in-power oppressor. This is a swift gateway for laissez faire thinking on issues affecting Jews, and in my opinion is borne-out in these pages.

We’re caught between the hammer and the anvil.

Anyway, my general theory is that all white people from Christian, European backgrounds (I.e. the entire Western world) - including the completely irreligious/ashiest among them - have a fundamental, inherent distaste for Jewish people due to imagery deep down in their psyche (or perhaps passed on genetically if that’s even possible) that Jews ‘killed beautiful, blond Jesus’. This is completely subconscious, of course.

I'm pretty sure I do not hold any particular distaste for Jews as a group, nor do I think Jesus was blonde. But if it's completely subconscious, then there's no way to prove or disprove your hypothesis.

[Posty Webber]

You added most of this after I posted! Anyway...

The Right in Israel (and its allies in Britain) is prepared IMO to defend any kind of antisemitism as long as they support the occupation and the worst excesses of the Netanyahu regime.

See support for Bannon, Orbán, or in Britain the toleration of sections of the far right.

Yes - it’s a thoroughly depressing state of affairs.

It’s not uncommon for opposing forces to align somewhat symbiotically. It happens all the time across political and social spectrums. But the lack of honesty is what kills me. If you’re going to be in bed with Nazis, at least admit that you’re doing it knowingly and that ‘you’ve got to break a few eggs’, etc. It would still be deplorable but honesty deserves some respect.

Criticising rich white men as rich white men is perfectly acceptable. Criticising rich white men as Jews is not.

Not sure if you meant to say the bold part (added by me) as you said it. Don’t you mean, “Criticising Jews as being rich white men is not”?

Ifind the attempt to erase the proud Jewish history of the anti-capitalist left from Bund to Forward, from Rosa Luxemburg to Kurt Eisner to Harold Pinter to Eli Valley is as much an assault on my Jewish identity as an attack on Israel.

Word. My great grandparents came to Glasgow as refugees with no shoes on their feet and lived in the Gorbals. My grandad worked in factories and my dad left school at 14. People don’t know shit.

[Posty Webber]

Do you really think everyone hates you because you’re Jewish?

I think lots of people don’t care. There are various degrees of conscious and unconscious antisemitism and I’ve experienced both but I don’t think the world view you describe is universal.

Apart from anything else lots of Muslims come from a very different tradition-one of tolerance and also in the U.K. of understanding the refugee experience-which is to me anyway inseparable from my Jewish identity

They don’t hate me. Very few people are cruel to individuals.

It’s the faceless group that holds the connotation.

How else do you explain Millenia of persecution and murder?

[johnr]

Anyway, my general theory is that all white people from Christian, European backgrounds (I.e. the entire Western world) - including the completely irreligious/ashiest among them - have a fundamental, inherent distaste for Jewish people due to imagery deep down in their psyche (or perhaps passed on genetically if that’s even possible) that Jews ‘killed beautiful, blond Jesus’. This is completely subconscious, of course.

It would not be possible to develop and pass on such a genetic response, particularly in the timetable you mention.

[Posty Webber]

I'm pretty sure I do not hold any particular distaste for Jews as a group, nor do I think Jesus was blonde. But if it's completely subconscious, then there's no way to prove or disprove your hypothesis.

Reed - you are possibly the only person I can think of who genuinely seems to have no malice for others (based upon reading your shit since the early 2000’s). So you get a pass

[Posty Webber]

It would not be possible to develop and pass on such a genetic response, particularly in the timetable you mention.

Yeah - the ‘genetic’ part was 99% dramatic hyperbole.

But can a deep groupthink be passed-on generationally via societal engineering?

[Nefertiti2]

Racism is certainly passed on in various ways.

Is the treatment of the Jews exceptional? it feels that way to us, certainly, but I'm sure Roma people would also say that their treatment is exceptional. So would the West Africans, who were sold in slavery- indeed they drew comfort from the stories of the Jews.The cruelties in the Congo, or Armenia or Rwanda may be numerically smaller than the Sho'ah but they are just as full of hate I don't know the Jewish story is exceptional to be honest, I just think it's better documented.

[Nefertiti2]

]

Criticising rich white men as rich white men is perfectly acceptable. Criticising rich white men as Jews is not.

I meant criticising rich white men- whether they are Jewish or gentile- is acceptable if you are attacking their role as rich white men. It's not acceptable to criticise them or to reference their Jewishness,

[Posty Webber]

]

I meant criticising rich white men- whether they are Jewish or gentile- is acceptable if you are attacking their role as rich white men. It's not acceptable to criticise them or to reference their Jewishness,

Well I say that anti-semitism from the Left is based on the idea that Jews = rich white men, which is neither of the things you say above.

Take your first one, where you suggest “all rich white men deserve criticism”, then add in _all Jews are rich white men_, and ergo: Jews deserve criticism.

[Posty Webber]

Racism is certainly passed on in various ways.

Is the treatment of the Jews exceptional? it feels that way to us, certainly, but I'm sure Roma people would also say that their treatment is exceptional. So would the West Africans, who were sold in slavery- indeed they drew comfort from the stories of the Jews.The cruelties in the Congo, or Armenia or Rwanda may be numerically smaller than the Sho'ah but they are just as full of hate I don't know the Jewish story is exceptional to be honest, I just think it's better documented.

I say this with utmost caution and respect: the violent suffering and oppression of ethnic groups can not and must not be ranked. Whether it’s 100 or 1,000,000 people, the impact can’t be measured.

But to say ‘the Jewish story is not exceptional’ seems odd to me.

Are there other people who hold such a place in the minds of so many disparate groups across geography, class and time?

[Nefertiti2]

But that' s not true is it?

Additiion in Square brackets
[That’ “all Jews are rich white men”. It’s important to separate those things. If Jews like Stephen Pollard claim that criticism of capitalism is antisemitism he is as guilty of propagating an anti Semitic meme as any one else. I think he’s doing it for strategic reasons, but I accept that may not be true of everyone. But I don’t think one should stop criticising capitalism because it might Hurd some Jewish feelings]

I mean just as Jews can't and shouldn't be expected to deal with the projections and anxieties other people have about them other people can't be expected to deal with the irrational projections and anxieties of Jews.

If I criticise Sheldon Adelson it's because he's a cunt, not because he's a Jew.

[Posty Webber]

I have insomnia and in my sleepless state I am ill-equipped to deal with that.

Very weird post.

I’m going to see if anyone else wants to deal with that one.