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    Antisemitism and contemporary politics

    I wanted to set up a thread entitled "Antisemitism and contemporary politics" but i pressed "enter" by accident

    I think that Corbyn, the far right in Europe, the Israel palestine thread ae none of them the approproate place.

    This article by Barnaby Raine is probably a good place to start


    I'm also interested in what people's awareness of how present antisemitism is- I've encountered it, but people usually assume I'm Jewish so they are probably aware of what they're saying to me. what people say about jews is probably more relevant than what they say to them.
    Last edited by Nefertiti2; 29-07-2018, 11:16.

    #2
    I did a panel interview yesterday on local Black Country Radio, along with Labour Councillor John M.

    The question was similar to yours but concentrating on the Labour Party. I suggested 3 reasons why the story has endured

    a) poor leadership from Corbyn

    b) poor judgement by his internal opponents

    c) effective pro-Israeli government lobby in the Tory-backing media

    I described the Jewish Chronicle as a "Previously respectable newspaper"...

    My interest in Israel/ Palestine is long-term since living there as a child (my parents worked for the British Consulate to Palestine in Jerusalem).

    My current contact with the Jewish Community in Britain is actually frequent but brief- when visiting London I usually arrive in Golders Green which has a long-established Orthodox community.

    I don't use terms like Zionism but may drop in Kosher if only to mean 'valid'. As a child over there in the late 60s I went to a Convent infant school then Anglican primary. My mother was friendly with the nuns who ran a cafe serving excellent Mitteleuropeen schnitzels, strudeln and gnocchi

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      #3
      Thanks for that piece, Nef

      I don't encounter antisemitism "in real life", not sure the last time I heard anyone voice anything that I would regard as antisemitic. Online it's a different story. Involved in campaigns and discussions about Palestinian human rights I fairly often encounter anti semitism (because it's online and largely anonymous I couldn't say which countries these anti semites live in. At a guess I'd say it varies and is largely across the board. I've left a number of forums and Facebook groups over this.

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        #4
        Would love to listen to it, Duncan, if it's available.

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          #5
          Nef: follow links on the website as below

          Listen Live > Listen Again > Black Country Week

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            #6
            Thanks do you know how far in- there's 2 hours of Black Country week....

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              #7
              AS question about 30 minutes in

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                #8
                Thanks for sharing Dunc - that was a decent listen. The Labour councillor was very careful with his words - he's probably bricking it in case he says something off-message.

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                  #9
                  Yes interesting - how free a hand you were given especially when talking about the Israel lobby. Don't think you would be able to say that on the Today programme. But thoughtful and considered,

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by Defensive minded
                    I'm curious. Why would people assume you're Jewish?
                    Name. Some aspects of stereotypical physiognomy,

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                      #11
                      Has sloper buggered off?

                      He did once accuse me of being a racist because I pointed out that there's a wider definition of the folks of the Levant are Semitic.

                      He seemed to think that only Jews were entitled to use the word.

                      (and the fact there's not a single member of the IDF that's not a crimmo murdering pirate after they killed Turkish civilians on the High Seas)

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                        #12
                        I've found that the combination of having a Slavic last name (though with Germanicised spelling) and being from New York is enough for a surprising number of people outside of the five boroughs to assume that I am Jewish.

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                          #13
                          "Jew" used to be my nickname among Darlo fans back in the 80s from people who didn't know me.

                          (Dark haired - how I wish that were still true - squat, and with a big nose)

                          Still. Better than the nickname I had at school in the 60s and 70s.

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                            #14
                            Thanks for kind words above. John M is an experienced local cllr. Looks like his colleague local MP Ian Austin may go walkabout soon- seems to be daring both Momentum and the Whips to have a go

                            My brief is stick to what you know, avoid libel and conspiracy and keep it simple

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                              #15
                              Anti-semitism means prejudice against Jews.
                              Hostility and prejudice directed against Jewish people; (also) the theory, action, or practice resulting from this.
                              OED

                              The fact that in 19th century racial theories other ethnicities were also called "semitic" is a) irrelevant b) usually used by racists to muddy the water. Can we put this cheap gotcha to one side?
                              Last edited by Nefertiti2; 29-07-2018, 18:41.

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                                #16
                                eh?

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                                  #17
                                  Other people and govts will still classify such people as Jews (or Muslims), aposatate, Marrano or whatever.

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                                    #18
                                    You think the Orban types only hate on those who follow kosher?

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                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Defensive minded
                                      Well Judaism is a religion. And the followers of this religion are Jews. But there are plenty of people who are not followers of Judaism, but still call themselves Jews, based on their heritage. I see parallels to Islam in this respect.
                                      You can be one culturally, and one devout never missing a day in the synagogue or any of the rituals like Bar mitzvah. Nothing strange with that. It's a cultural identity.
                                      Just like it isn't strange a lot of atheists celebrate Christmas and Easter and other very Christian days.

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                                        #20
                                        Well, a lot of people decorate a tree and exchange gifts at midwinter, but those are pagan rituals for the solstice appropriated by Christians. Same's true of Easter which is basically the spring festival. I once had a Christian try and claim that the chocolate egg symbolised Christ's tomb. I think Occam's razor suggests it symbolises an egg myself.

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                                          #21
                                          You're mixing things now.
                                          Easter is Easter and spring festival is spring festival.
                                          And Christmas even has Christ in the word, not so much about decorating pagan trees.
                                          Maybe I wasn't clear enough. A lot of people define themselves as atheists and still celebrate these days more out of a cultural tradition than out of a belief. I have a lot of friends who were raised Catholic, later on in life distanced themselves from the church and religion but still celebrate Christmas and Easter, two very important times during the year for them. It's a big part of their Croatian identity. Even though they don't go to church, think believing in God is a joke, etc.

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                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by Defensive minded
                                            This is not anti-semitism in terms of the Nazi defintion. They weren't interested in whether anyone was a follower of Judaism. They were more interested in the heritage of Semetic people. They are also rounded up all the Christains who had converted from Judaism.

                                            You see. I don't think it's helpful to conflate religions with ethnic groups.
                                            Yeah, funny thing that, antisemites don't really care what religion you follow, if you have Jewish blood then you're a Jew to them.

                                            Are you also confuddled that mixed race people often identify as black?

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                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by Defensive minded
                                              This is not anti-semitism in terms of the Nazi defintion. They weren't interested in whether anyone was a follower of Judaism. They were more interested in the heritage of Semetic people. They are also rounded up all the Christains who had converted from Judaism.
                                              Some German Jews survived the Third Reich by converting to Christianity, but I suppose that those were people who the regime could see use for.

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                                                #24
                                                In Germany in June, I saw Roger Waters being mentioned in the news. "Waters, who has a history of making anti-semitic statements..." Oh, ficken Sie weg, German news.

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                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by Defensive minded
                                                  Well Judaism is a religion. And the followers of this religion are Jews. But there are plenty of people who are not followers of Judaism, but still call themselves Jews, based on their heritage. I see parallels to Islam in this respect.
                                                  People who are culturally Muslim but secular/atheist are, I would guess, a relatively recent phenomenon (I sure someone will come up with historical examples) while people defining themselves as secular/atheist Jews have been around for over a hundred years, at least. I suppose there is also the difference that, while people will often - erroneously - regard people as of an Arab culture or race but with Muslim religion, there is no such even inaccurate distinction for cultural Jews and religious Jews.

                                                  Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
                                                  The question was similar to yours but concentrating on the Labour Party. I suggested 3 reasons why the story has endured

                                                  a) poor leadership from Corbyn

                                                  b) poor judgement by his internal opponents

                                                  c) effective pro-Israeli government lobby in the Tory-backing media
                                                  This seems a fairly simple but effective summing up.

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