The Brexit Thread

[johnr]

(To Tubbs) Thanks. What was interesting was how most of them even accepted the journo's framing - something about 'be compared to Donald Trump', which he'd completely made up - without any problem. I get that things are frantic - both about Brexit, natch, and on Twitter generally - but it does tend to underline the 'everyone's out to get Corbyn' narrative that some of us have been going on about. (Usual caveat: I don't agree with him on everything.)

In my more calm-ish moments, I like to think it's that lots of people are seeing him as the one hope to change things, and hence subject him to more scrutiny; though, most of the time, I think it's cos most people can't even envisage/don't actually want, much change at all. Still, that's all for another thread...

[Tubby Isaacs]

In this case there seems to have been a slightly oddly phrased quote pre-released about cheap labour from abroad, but some of it is malicious v Corbyn, clearly.

[johnr]

I guess that the reason I get so annoyed is because of this sort of fucking shit by Carole Cadwallader.

[Snake Plissken]

The usual suspects are doubled down after the error has been pointed out to them.

[Flynnie]

I'm reading the text of the speech now and while there's a few elements of Cakeism, it's hardly the "Hard Brexit will be great, guys" speech the press are making it out to be.

The most encouraging thing is he explicitly points out and gives several examples where the Tories hid behind the EU while imposing their disaster capitalist ideology, tendering out contracts for defence ships that other EU member states keep in house, pointing out that farming out the production of railway cars is hardly mandated by the EU, even insinuating that the Tories could have saved Port Talbot. That's usually a major Lexiter oversight.

He also criticises a no-deal Brexit, repeats the usual call for a customs union, and full, tariff-free access to the Common Market, which is standard Labour policy now.

The Cakeism is he talks about a customs union that gives the UK a say on trade deals. I suspect that'll be tough, and talks about seeking clarification or exemption from some state aid rules. Clarification is perfectly sensible, I suspect exemption will not.

He also talks about some US states not being a part of the WTO agreement on procurement in a way that makes it sound like a policy decision to uplift poorer states, since he is interested in doing that for poorer UK regions. I suspect it isn't so easy, although the US carves so many exemptions from the WTO agreement on procurement that I wonder how difficult it would be to do.

[Flynnie]

I guess that the reason I get so annoyed is because of this sort of fucking shit by Carole Cadwallader.

Cadwalladr is turning more into Louise Mensch every day.

[ad hoc]

That's very very harsh. She did a fantastic job on the Cambridge Analytica story and the Vote Leave stuff.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Port Talbot is still very much with us.

Where are services in all this? Apart from the implication that we've got too much of them.

[Tubby Isaacs]

That's very very harsh. She did a fantastic job on the Cambridge Analytica story and the Vote Leave stuff.

Yep. And is still doing it.

[Flynnie]

That's very very harsh. She did a fantastic job on the Cambridge Analytica story and the Vote Leave stuff.

And Louise Mensch once won a swing seat in a General Election.

She's been onboard the "if it wasn't for Russia, none of this would be happening and everything would be normal" bandwagon for a long time, which is the cushy liberal's admission they're too fucking stupid to understand materialism, namely the relations of production.

[Kevin S]

We go from 'easiest trade deal in history' to 'we will make sure there are adequate food supplies'.

https://twitter.com/BenGartside/status/1021760891052875777
https://twitter.com/BenGartside/stat...60891052875777

Though I think the government are not going to be doing the stockpiling... so that's food banks for everyone?

[Tubby Isaacs]

And Louise Mensch once won a swing seat in a General Election.

She's been onboard the "if it wasn't for Russia, none of this would be happening and everything would be normal" bandwagon for a long time, which is the cushy liberal's admission they're too fucking stupid to understand materialism, namely the relations of production.

This thing is her story, on which she's worked extremely hard, had sexist abuse and legal threats. Of course she pushes it.

I think Hillary Clinton would have won without Comey's last minute intervention. That doesn't mean I think everything else in America was fine.

[johnr]

Yep. And is still doing it.

Maybe. But when she gives such a catastrophically bad take on this - I mean, it's really bad, desperate, shitty stuff - then I'm less inclined to take her other stuff seriously, I'm afraid.

[ad hoc]

I do agree that this morning's thing you posted was shockingly poor.

[Flynnie]

This thing is her story, on which she's worked extremely hard, had sexist abuse and legal threats. Of course she pushes it.

I think Hillary Clinton would have won without Comey's last minute intervention. That doesn't mean I think everything else in America was fine.

You're damn right not everything else in America was fine, if it was Comey could have asked for an indictment and Hillary still would have beaten a demented game show host by ten points. That's literally the point. Ratfucking has a long, ignoble tradition, but what decides elections is material conditions. The world is fucked, find your answers from that first.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Maybe. But when she gives such a catastrophically bad take on this - I mean, it's really bad, desperate, shitty stuff - then I'm less inclined to take her other stuff seriously, I'm afraid.

I can see that with this example. She knows as well as anyone Leave.EU are liars, so shouldn't be quoting them like that.

[Tubby Isaacs]

You're damn right not everything else in America was fine, if it was Comey could have asked for an indictment and Hillary still would have beaten a demented game show host by ten points. That's literally the point. Ratfucking has a long, ignoble tradition, but what decides elections is material conditions. The world is fucked, find your answers from that first.

If material conditions decide elections, I don't understand why Gore didn't win by about 10% in 2000.

And over here, how does Cameron win a majority in 2015?

[johnr]

I can see that with this example. She knows as well as anyone Leave.EU are liars, so shouldn't be quoting them like that.

Ta, I'm using that...

[Flynnie]

If material conditions decide elections, I don't understand why Gore didn't win by about 10% in 2000.

And over here, how does Cameron win a majority in 2015?

Cameron is easy, the electoral system did that.

Gore ran away from the material successes of the 1990s US economy, and proposed using the surplus to pay off the national debt while Bush offered it to voters as a bung.

[Snake Plissken]

Raab gets demoted during a Select Committee appearance. Apparently the Minister for Brexit is no longer in charge of Brexit. Theresa May is.

I'm not sure whether that is an improvement.

[Flynnie]

She would like it to be an improvement, but I bet Graham Brady just got a letter or two.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Cameron is easy, the electoral system did that.

Gore ran away from the material successes of the 1990s US economy, and proposed using the surplus to pay off the national debt while Bush offered it to voters as a bung.

Yeah, Cameron got very lucky with the electoral system, but the Tory vote did go up slightly. Hard to see any material reason for that. Without narrative (SNP threat, Labour's mess, Miliband's bacon sandwich etc) he's fucked. Wages did OK under Obama, except that narrative made out they hadn't really and put forward some ex-steelworker in the rustbelt as the typical American worker.

Trump was promising tax cuts, just like Bush did.

[Diable Rouge]

So, the UK is already in preliminary discussions with the WTO on agricultural tariffs and quotas - unsurprisingly, non-EU members want a more liberal market:

http://ecipe.org/publications/the-uk...e-negotiation/

[Tubby Isaacs]

Raab gets demoted during a Select Committee appearance. Apparently the Minister for Brexit is no longer in charge of Brexit. Theresa May is.

I'm not sure whether that is an improvement.

I am making this statement to bring to the attention of the House a machinery of government change.

It is essential that in navigating the UK’s exit from the European Union, the government is organised in the most effective way. To that end I am making some changes to the division of functions between the Department for Exiting the European Union (DExEU) and the Cabinet Office.

DExEU will continue to lead on all of the government’s preparations for Brexit: domestic preparations in both a deal and a no deal scenario, all of the necessary legislation, and preparations for the negotiations to implement the detail of the future framework. To support this, DExEU will recruit some new staff, and a number of Cabinet Office officials coordinating work on preparedness will move to DExEU while maintaining close ties with both departments.

I will lead the negotiations with the European Union, with the secretary of state for Exiting the European Union deputising on my behalf. Both of us will be supported by the Cabinet Office Europe unit and with this in mind the Europe unit will have overall responsibility for the preparation and conduct of the negotiations, drawing upon support from DExEU and other departments as required. A number of staff will transfer from DExEU to the Cabinet Office to deliver that.

There will be no net reduction in staff numbers at DExEU given the recruitment exercise described above.

Raab is majorly slapped down there.

I think it's hard not to be an improvement, given his "not paying" bollocks pulled last weekend. It's interesting she's made a point of doing this so formally and explicitly. If there's No Deal, she'll have to take personal responsibility. I don't think she'll want that.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I wonder if Suella Fernandes could resign over this. She's in "assistant to the regional manager" territory now.