The Brexit Thread

[Janik]

But that's not true is it? I mean that's simply not the lesson of the last election. They were all photoshopping pictures of him stabbing a baby while fucking a chicken, and it didn't matter. He had a good message, and people heard it. No-one can hear him if he says nothing. People just want someone to fucking stand for something coherent at this point.

I think you are wrong there. What people heard and saw was that Theresa May was an omnishambles. So, due to the collapse of the third parties, they voted for the other lot. It was an anti-May vote. The content of Corbyn's message was close to irrelevant, the only important thing was that he had one, and the other lot didn't. Which was, in many ways, an entirely similar dynamic to the referendum, just as Varoufakis points out.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Yep. Cuddly Cameron used to help Howard with PMQs.

Maybe he dreamed up that zinger about not taking lectures from privately educated Blair.

[Lang Spoon]

And of course Blair and the enablers of Blairism encouraged the hostile environment to immigrants. More specifically “failed asylum seekers”. Was it New Lab or the Tories that first used asylum seeker instead of refugee? I wasn’t in the country at the time but there seems barely a week when Blunkett as Home Secretary wasn’t being overulled or admonished for some element of his pure brutal and nasty immigration/detention and repatriation policies. A nasty bastard, him and the likes of Call Me Doctor John Reid have so much to answer for I wish there was a hell.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Straw did 4 years in the job before Blunkett. Certainly some of that stuff around, for sure. "Failed asylum seekers" were a thing. Partly because Howard had left a mess, but it went further.

[Lang Spoon]

Oh yeah Straw as well. Wasn’t he a youthful Tankie like Reid and Mandleson? All they have left is the democratic centralism. All the good stuff mere undoable fluff, Proper exercise of Power is the lesson of Marxist-Leninism. Top down comrade. Top down no matter fucking what comrade. And both Straw and Reid would become war criminals as well. I’m sure they agonized over their Hobson’s choices but.

[anton pulisov]

Labour Centrists. Leaders of Men.

Late 2016:
Chuka Umunna: We Should Be Prepared To Sacrifice Single Market Membership To Axe Freedom Of Movement

Mid 2017:
Chuka Umunna: These crazy fucks who want to throw us out of the single market to prevent immigration must be stopped

[johnr]

But that's not true is it? I mean that's simply not the lesson of the last election. They were all photoshopping pictures of him stabbing a baby while fucking a chicken, and it didn't matter. He had a good message, and people heard it. No-one can hear him if he says nothing. People just want someone to fucking stand for something coherent at this point.

Already Brexit has lead to a collapse in the pound, and a rapid increase in inflation which is far outstripping wage growth. As always, this is shitting on the most vulnerable in society the hardest, this is a bad thing, and its going to get worse. People understand this. What people need to hear is that there is going to be no magic brexit deal, And theresa May is distinctly unlikely to deliver one. The EU means what it says, and the govt's insistence on leaving the SM means that a fucking huge chunk of the economy requires single market membership to actually exist.

Marry that with a promise to use the EU to Force companies to pay tax, and to use the EU to crack down on 1% tax evasion, Which I suspect would be wildly popular with the public, and tack your various promises onto that. The thing is that this would be a fucking plan that people could get behind. There's a choice between building a modern and fairer society by making the wealthy pay some fucking tax, or fucking hunger marches. It's that stark.

You're right here TAB, and in your earlier excellent post. But he's not in an election campaign at the moment. He/they will make lots of those points, later this year. To do so now won't mean anything in electoral terms, until it does.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

an omnishambles that got 2,500,000 more votes than cameron, Labour didn't get 3.6 million extra votes because may was shit.

And I think the nature of the message that was important. There's a lot of english people who didnt want to hear about brexit any more, so he didn't really talk about it, and went with a traditional left wing populist campaign of increased spending that was a bit hazy on how it was going to pay for it. This got a lot of the traditional voters, out, and it appealed to a lot of the ukip crowd who felt that the time had come for the govt to give them their brexit dividend now that that was all out of the way.

It's a tricky coalition to keep togther, which is why they need to prepare the ground for the message that leaving the single market will bring about the end of the welfare state, and public provision as we know it, to keep those people properly motivated, and that the EU will enable them to tax the rich. That should keep that coalition on board, and win over more people. It's a compelling in that it is also the right thing to do.

he's only going to get one chance at this, this is actually an turning point in UK history, are the UK going to keep stumbling towards economic and societal desolation, while the tories piss around, and labour say nothing. or will the Labour party get its act together in time to point out the impending disaster, force apart the tory factions, collapse the govt, and run on a left wing platform that involves staying in the EU, and actually fucking do something for the people they are supposed to represent. An awful lot is resting on Corbyn and the decisions he makes.

[Snake Plissken]

Oh yeah Straw as well. Wasn’t he a youthful Tankie like Reid and Mandleson? All they have left is the democratic centralism. All the good stuff mere undoable fluff, Proper exercise of Power is the lesson of Marxist-Leninism. Top down comrade. Top down no matter fucking what comrade. And both Straw and Reid would become war criminals as well. I’m sure they agonized over their Hobson’s choices but.

A man who, while Home Secretary, stood on a soapbox and publicly said that the residents of the next town along peeled bananas with their feet.

[E10 Rifle]

I think Straw was a Trot actually (though I stand to be corrected). Reid was a full-on Tankie though, as was Charles Clarke.

All of which goes to show that if there's one thing worse than an overly dogmatic top-down Marxist-Leninist, it's an overly dogmatic top-down ex-Marxist-Leninist.

And the old Stalinist trick of using bureaucratic manouevres and procedural obfuscation is alive and well in the administrative Right of the Labour party to this day.

[E10 Rifle]

Anyway, I'm wondering whether the Ireland angle might be one to press Corbyn on. He might be ambivalent about the single-market, but he has rather stronger opinions about a hard border - perhaps his republican inclinations (which he understandably strategically plays down but we all know he has - and I've never personally had a problem with) could be pushed here.

[Snake Plissken]

Not a bad idea, but possibly still too much of a live issue with a loud minority.

[Dav O'Roso]

Good points both by E10 & SP.

[E10 Rifle]

Meanwhile, May makes a show of chucking EU foreigns under the bus. FOM for them ends next March, pronto. Apparently.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Labour Centrists. Leaders of Men.

Late 2016:
Chuka Umunna: We Should Be Prepared To Sacrifice Single Market Membership To Axe Freedom Of Movement

Mid 2017:
Chuka Umunna: These crazy fucks who want to throw us out of the single market to prevent immigration must be stopped

He voted for Article 50 too.

He's been right for about a year though, which is more than most can say. It's a low bar.

[Tubby Isaacs]

One reason I like backing EEA- Customs Union membership is that for all the issues that come up, Labour can just say "we answered that already". They spend less time arguing about Brexit and more on hospitals etc.

[Moonlight Shadow]

Sam Coates released an interesting series of tweets to go along The Times article about the road haulage bill, the only "no deal" bill in preparation. It's not pretty....

[Snake Plissken]

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/959006916579155974

Click through for the thread.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Rees Mogg and Baker might be in a spot of trouble. Charles Grant has said he didn't say "that". Recording of his talk apparently confirms.

[Etienne]

Baker certainly should be.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Yeah. Urgent question at least. Bercow is usually good for this.

[Antepli Ejderha]

Irish court refuses man's extradition because of Brexit

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...y_to_clipboard

This seems rather bizarre?

[Lang Spoon]

Seems totally reasonable as long as his rights as an EU citizen can’t be guaranteed post March 2019. This is the shite at the end of the Brexit fork. Hush and eat your gristle.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Baker has apologised on Twitter.

[Lang Spoon]

May friendly starvation bombs fall on the heckling Brexit Now cunt in the Question Time crowd. Notice Dimblefuck didn’t interrupt the fucker either. Why is John Mann. Scum sucking bastard evil cunt. Bring on the deselection guillotine machine Corbs. Go Full Leninist.