Trump's Card

[Tubby Isaacs]

Thanks for that. Lots of very interesting threads to that there.

btw I wasn't meaning an injunction or anything like that. I was just meaning, as with Cameron and Fallon, that they think "I'll get sued and lose, so I'd better shut up and apologize". Obviously that doesn't work.

I can see why Comey will never sue, but I'm still interested because it seems so unjust that he can be wrongly accused of a crime with no redress. And in hope more than expectation, I've alighted on this on Wiki:

Statements are defamatory per se where they falsely impute to the plaintiff one or more of the following things:[2]

Allegations or imputations "injurious to another in their trade, business, or profession"
Allegations or imputations "of loathsome disease" (historically leprosy and sexually transmitted disease, now also including mental illness)
Allegations or imputations of "unchastity" (usually only in unmarried people and sometimes only in women)
Allegations or imputations of criminal activity (sometimes only crimes of moral turpitude)[/QUOTE]

Not going to happen, no doubt, but could I get a point in an essay for this?

[ursus arctos]

The concept of defamation per se has been under attack in this country for decades and is particularly disfavoured in the political context. And you still need to prove damages to recover.

You deserve more than a point for effort, though.

And it is seriously unfair.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Thanks. I've enjoyed this exchange.

[Tubby Isaacs]

A different question. What's Richard Wolffe talking about here? Just this bit, not particularly interested in the article, or impeachment.

For impeachment to happen, Democrats need to win back at least the House. So far, the signs look promising: the generic congressional ballot gives Democrats a 14-point lead, which is pretty much what they were polling before they swept both sides of Congress at Bush’s low point in 2006 and Obama’s high point in 2008.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...is-impeachment

[ursus arctos]

It is based on national polls asking voters which party they expect to support in the 2018 election for the House

I've never been a big fan, as they elide local issues, ignore gerrymandering and have 15 months to develop.

[ursus arctos]

As if on cue, it turns out that Ken Starr commissioned a long memo that concluded that presidential immunity is bunk

At least when the Clintons are involved

WASHINGTON — A newfound memo from Kenneth W. Starr’s independent counsel investigation into President Bill Clinton sheds fresh light on a constitutional puzzle that is taking on mounting significance amid the Trump-Russia inquiry: Can a sitting president be indicted?

The 56-page memo, locked in the National Archives for nearly two decades and obtained by The New York Times under the Freedom of Information Act, amounts to the most thorough government-commissioned analysis rejecting a generally held view that presidents are immune from prosecution while in office.

“It is proper, constitutional, and legal for a federal grand jury to indict a sitting president for serious criminal acts that are not part of, and are contrary to, the president’s official duties,” the Starr office memo concludes. “In this country, no one, even President Clinton, is above the law.”

I may need to give you another point.

[WOM]

Next hypothetical: Trump fires Mueller. What happens to the investigation itself? Does it just end? What happens to all the evidence compiled to date? Is someone new appointed and he carries on? Or does someone partisan get appointed and then shut the whole thing down?

[ursus arctos]

Trump can't fire Mueller

Read this

[WOM]

Thank you for that. It gives me tenuous comfort.

[Tubby Isaacs]

http://www.npr.org/2017/07/20/538363...-appeals-court

Probably mentioned before. Another thing I've learned today, apparently. Senators don't vote down the appointment of loons from Kentucky because they're scared of Mitch McConnell.

Who is the missing Democrat? Did Joe Manchin abstain? He voted for Sessions, but against Betsy De Vos, I recall.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Thanks, Mike Pence, and sundry scumbag liars.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...r-charlie-gard

Scotland Yard has been called in to investigate allegations that staff at Great Ormond Street hospital have been bombarded with violent threats and abuse over the case of the baby Charlie Gard.


Thousands of abusive messages, including death threats, have been sent to doctors and nurses at the children’s hospital in London, the chair of the hospital revealed. She said that staff were also facing abuse in the street. Families visiting their sick children had also been “harassed and discomfited,” they said.

[ursus arctos]

Stabenow of Michigan was the missing Democrat on Bush.

Not sure why she was absent.

The Gard stuff is beyond shameful

[Tubby Isaacs]

Shameful lack of response from our PM, as far as I know. Seeing she's basically been accused of being death paneller in chief by Pence.

[ursus arctos]

He's worried about the tax returns

[Tubby Isaacs]

Can they be sub poena'ed by the Senate committee?

[johnr]

I don't know enough about US politics. Am I right in thinking that the only option is that if Trump goes, by whatever means, Pence serves the rest of the term? If that is the case, why would people want him to go?

Sorry for the basic question.

[ursus arctos]

It isn't that basic a question, and one worth thinking about, especially given Pence's more extreme reactionary politics and his apparently greater stability,

In addition to the points that Bruno notes, the thought is that 45's immolation would further improve chances for a Dempcraric takeover of the House (or even the Senate) in the 2018 mid-term elections, thereby putting a very significant brake on the Republicans' ability to enact their odious agenda.

As an example, tomanswer Tubby's question above, the Congressional committees could in theory subpoena the tax returns, but will never do so as long as they are controlled by the GOP. That would change immediately once a Democratic majority is in place.

[ursus arctos]

Unfortunately, so can I.

[San Bernardhinault]

Since before the election, I've been expecting them to find a way to politely shove Trump out of the door before he completely immolates. Pence is a much more natural fit for the likes of Ryan and McConnell. I still expect them to do it within 6 months, before he gets too close to impeachment stuff, and to try and do it in a way that Trump agrees to, this not alienating the crazies.

The trouble is with waiting for him to burn is that the longer he's in power, the more Senate and House Republicans have to endorse the Trump incompetence and stupidity - they have to ally themselves to his positions with all the harm that comes from that.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Won't Pence know all about the Russia stuff too?

[San Bernardhinault]

Pence has plausible deniability. He always kept himself distant from most of the Trump family stuff.

[ursus arctos]

Since the inauguration, he's been aggressively claiming that he isn't.

Recall that The given reason for Flynn's dismissal is that he lied to Pence about his Russian contacts.

[ursus arctos]

He'd want to make a deal. Not just a pardon, but real money.

Don't know if the usual suspects would fund it.

[Satchmo Distel]

Trump will not go until he loses the 2020 election. He has enough support in the base to hold off the GOP hierarchy.

[anton pulisov]

I don't see the deal with the Russia thing. If the Russians hacked the election, then that's obviously a huge problem. But where's the evidence of that?

But if it boils down to some Russians whispering in Trump's ear, then he has done nothing illegal. Unless they have financed his campaign, which would be illegal under US election law. Foreigners can't fund US candidates.

So if all he's done is talked to Russians, then they are going have to get him for lying, in a 'I lied about having oral sex in the Oval Office' kind of way. That's only going to pump more poison into the well.