Corb Blimey!

[Lucy Waterman]

Corb Blimey!

Just one more point - it surely makes sense to leave Corbs in charge to do his apology routine over chilcot. Offers the chance of a clean break with Iraq for the next leader.

[Lucy Waterman]

Corb Blimey!

edit - see below

[sw2borshch]

Corb Blimey!

BLT, Corbyn was happy to let the conservatives and liberal right scapegoat migrants to the extent that a couple of million Labour people voted for them because he hasn't the leadership to project a coherent alternative narrative. He's knackered.

[Lucy Waterman]

Corb Blimey!

edit - cheap. What's the point? Let Remainers not argue amongst ourselves.

[Tactical Genius]

Corb Blimey!

Bizarre Löw Triangle wrote: Tempted to join Labour to vote for Corbyn if there's a leadership challenge (I didn't last time).

Not that I think Corbyn is a particularly good leader, I just think having a leader of the Labour Party who isn't willing to scapegoat migrants is pretty necessary given the massive increase in racism over the last 5-10 years.

Also watching the Blairites cry when Corbyn wins again will be pretty fucking sweet.

Increase in Racism?

Where is the evidence of this. The racists have always been there for people who have bothered to pay attention.

[johnr]

Corb Blimey!

'Happy to let'? All I saw was the opposite argument from him, but there you go.

To sw2.

[Bizarre Löw Triangle]

Corb Blimey!

Tactical Genius wrote:

Tempted to join Labour to vote for Corbyn if there's a leadership challenge (I didn't last time).

Not that I think Corbyn is a particularly good leader, I just think having a leader of the Labour Party who isn't willing to scapegoat migrants is pretty necessary given the massive increase in racism over the last 5-10 years.

Also watching the Blairites cry when Corbyn wins again will be pretty fucking sweet.

Increase in Racism?

Where is the evidence of this. The racists have always been there for people who have bothered to pay attention.

They've always been there yes, but now there are more of them and they're energised and motivated. More to the point, most mainstream politicians are willing to appease them.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Corb Blimey!

johnr wrote:

Woof. Chris Bryant pulls no punches.

Funny he lasted till this late in the day.

Lord Bassam can't be a Corbynite. He'll be gone soon.

That Corbyn hasn't resigned yet doesn't suggest much self-awareness. He's in Thatcher "I'm staying, I got more than Hestletine" territory.

Nope. I'm afraid the country, and the Labour Party, have gone a bit frantic the last couple of days. Calm heads need(ed) to prevail.

This has practically nothing to do with Brexit. It'd be ridiculous to say that there's a whole bunch of Labour MPs who - despite electoral results that were far better then they had predicted - would be prepared to take any moment to try and get rid of him, even at existential risk to their own party, so I won't.

Corbyn won't go anywhere cos at the moment he can't see anybody who could carry his agenda forward, that he could 'annoint', and carry his supporters - who have changed the make-up of Labour for a generation. Most aren't going anywhere - except to oppose Labour should they go rightwards.

And there's absolutely nobody on the right who has got any stated agenda, except some vague stuff about 'reconnecting' - I've asked around, and all I can find out is that there's a 'must sort immigration out' vagueness. I think we know where that's going.

Bassam occasionally turns out for my cricket team. Never been known as a man of great principle, so he'll go the way of the blowing wind. The last two words also describe his cricketing skills.

I don't think Corbyn himself even stayed cool. He and McDonnell piled in with "accept the will of the people, invoke Article 50 now". That looks like it was decided by the two of them.

Not that it matters now, and anyway, the other 27 might take it out of our hands, but they could have called for calm and watched the promises fall apart. Maybe then some sort of half decent diplomatic solution can be reached.

[sw2borshch]

Corb Blimey!

Happy may be unfair. I didn't see/hear him provide a coherent alternative narrative. He may have gave one. But he most certainly didn't project one. That's at least in part due to the media landscape. He didn't create that, but he's not going to change it either. And he hasn't got the leadership, including the charisma, to get his message across.

It's a bit like a footballer who can pass, shoot, tackle, but just can't run. So he doesn't get to play in the top leagues. Unlucky, but there it is.

[johnr]

Corb Blimey!

Tubby Isaacs wrote:

Woof. Chris Bryant pulls no punches.

Funny he lasted till this late in the day.

Lord Bassam can't be a Corbynite. He'll be gone soon.

That Corbyn hasn't resigned yet doesn't suggest much self-awareness. He's in Thatcher "I'm staying, I got more than Hestletine" territory.

Nope. I'm afraid the country, and the Labour Party, have gone a bit frantic the last couple of days. Calm heads need(ed) to prevail.

This has practically nothing to do with Brexit. It'd be ridiculous to say that there's a whole bunch of Labour MPs who - despite electoral results that were far better then they had predicted - would be prepared to take any moment to try and get rid of him, even at existential risk to their own party, so I won't.

Corbyn won't go anywhere cos at the moment he can't see anybody who could carry his agenda forward, that he could 'annoint', and carry his supporters - who have changed the make-up of Labour for a generation. Most aren't going anywhere - except to oppose Labour should they go rightwards.

And there's absolutely nobody on the right who has got any stated agenda, except some vague stuff about 'reconnecting' - I've asked around, and all I can find out is that there's a 'must sort immigration out' vagueness. I think we know where that's going.

Bassam occasionally turns out for my cricket team. Never been known as a man of great principle, so he'll go the way of the blowing wind. The last two words also describe his cricketing skills.

I don't think Corbyn himself even stayed cool. He and McDonnell piled in with "accept the will of the people, invoke Article 50 now". That looks like it was decided by the two of them.

Not that it matters now, and anyway, the other 27 might take it out of our hands, but they could have called for calm and watched the promises fall apart. Maybe then some sort of half decent diplomatic solution can be reached.

Fair points, though I was right behind invoking the Article straight away too, it's really important for the EU (though I guess that shouldn't be his (or our) concern anymore...maybe he did need to play to the country, who are shit scared, more).

[johnr]

Corb Blimey!

sw2bureau wrote: Happy may be unfair. I didn't see/hear him provide a coherent alternative narrative. He may have gave one. But he most certainly didn't project one. That's at least in part due to the media landscape. He didn't create that, but he's not going to change it either. And he hasn't got the leadership, including the charisma, to get his message across.

It's a bit like a footballer who can pass, shoot, tackle, but just can't run. So he doesn't get to play in the top leagues. Unlucky, but there it is.

Fair points too. But any other Labour leader won't change the media narrative either; some of the right may think they'll get a better hearing as a potential leader - until they get elected, then the photos of bananas will come out.

As I said, I would like to see those who say he hasn't got 'charisma' - though 100,000s might disagree, but let that pass - name anybody in Labour who has. Until they do, it's all a pointless 'coup', as Lucy W pointed out. It's the wrong time, for the wrong reasons.

[sw2borshch]

Corb Blimey!

I'm not enough of a party watcher to know of any likely successor, but there is perhaps an argument for doing it now, parallel with the Tories, which will give less space for dragging out stories of teenage Marx-worshipping or whatever, and give the new leader a chance to get established whilst the Tories have their bald men undertake a Dutch auction for the comb.

Not many have charisma, which puts a political premium on it.

[Tactical Genius]

Corb Blimey!

Bizarre Löw Triangle wrote:

Tempted to join Labour to vote for Corbyn if there's a leadership challenge (I didn't last time).

Not that I think Corbyn is a particularly good leader, I just think having a leader of the Labour Party who isn't willing to scapegoat migrants is pretty necessary given the massive increase in racism over the last 5-10 years.

Also watching the Blairites cry when Corbyn wins again will be pretty fucking sweet.

Increase in Racism?

Where is the evidence of this. The racists have always been there for people who have bothered to pay attention.

They've always been there yes, but now there are more of them and they're energised and motivated. More to the point, most mainstream politicians are willing to appease them.

I humbly disagree. Immigration has always been a hot topic in a general election for as long as I can remember. The difference is that the bogeyman is the eastern European rather than from the West IndiesWest AfricaIndian Subcontinent like it was in the 70s/80s/90s.
Look at the local and European elections from the last 15 years. UKIP and the BNP have had a pretty goos turnout and it is only when the Tories lurch right that their votes drop.

This country has always been insular and racist, not as racist as it was in the 70's i'll admit, but not much better. Bear that in mind when we next see English supporters singing offensive songs and acting the fool abroad.........

[johnr]

Corb Blimey!

OK. Though as I say, it seems very strange for people to call for him to go - not you necessarily, but Labour folk - with absolutely no idea who might replace him. Beyond 'not being pro-EU enough', I haven't seen anybody challenge him on policy terms, so they really are going for 'charisma' I guess. Be interesting to see who they mean.

I think I'm repeating myself, so time for bed. When I wake up, it'll all have been a dream...

[Satchmo Distel]

Corb Blimey!

It seems to soon after the GE to change leader. Even Ian Duncan Smith, surely the worst party leader of modern times on either side, was given two years before he lost a No Confidence vote. It didn't stop Michael Howard getting massacred in 2005 (in a campaign where the Tories were overtly racist in a manner not unlike Leave).

[axolotl]

Corb Blimey!

from afar, (non-uk), corbyn has been anonymous, seems to be he was making an absolute balls of a hedge.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Corb Blimey!

That defiant message of Corbyn's, crikey. He does look a bit like King Lear now I think about it.

Something about "securing the best deal for Britain". The best deal for Britain is the one we had before.

[Lucy Waterman]

Corb Blimey!

Satchmo Distel wrote: It seems to soon after the GE to change leader. Even Ian Duncan Smith, surely the worst party leader of modern times on either side, was given two years before he lost a No Confidence vote. It didn't stop Michael Howard getting massacred in 2005 (in a campaign where the Tories were overtly racist in a manner not unlike Leave).

You may be being unfair to IDS, who gained significant numbers of councillors in both of the local elections he contested. I think he probably edges out Corbyn in the race to penultimate position, but they are very much two variations on the same theme. Popular with members, greeted with horror by the parliamentary party, incapable communicators, and elected for the same reason - that the grassroots reacted to defeat by saying "They didn't like what we had to offer, let's double down on it."

[johnr]

Corb Blimey!

Lucy Waterman wrote:

It seems to soon after the GE to change leader. Even Ian Duncan Smith, surely the worst party leader of modern times on either side, was given two years before he lost a No Confidence vote. It didn't stop Michael Howard getting massacred in 2005 (in a campaign where the Tories were overtly racist in a manner not unlike Leave).

You may be being unfair to IDS, who gained significant numbers of councillors in both of the local elections he contested. I think he probably edges out Corbyn in the race to penultimate position, but they are very much two variations on the same theme. Popular with members, greeted with horror by the parliamentary party, incapable communicators, and elected for the same reason - that the grassroots reacted to defeat by saying "They didn't like what we had to offer, let's double down on it."

An interesting analogy. I'm still waiting to hear - it's getting on for a year now - how any of the other leadership candidates would have been anything other than doubling down on Labour's gradual, long term implosion and disassociation across the country (as opposed to increasing membership and subsequent engagement by 100,000s), but I guess that's old news.

[Lucy Waterman]

Corb Blimey!

Ha - well, that's impossible to prove either way! We'll never be able to compare how any of them would have done against Corbyn's performance.

[Kevin S]

Corb Blimey!

BBC reporting that Watson has told Corbyn to quit. Most other sources say he was asked to "consider his position".

[N est à?]

Corb Blimey!

Something about "securing the best deal for Britain". The best deal for Britain is the one we had before.

Yeah there was a referendum though Tubbs (which I realise you didn't vote in)

[N est à?]

Corb Blimey!

"All we need to be up there is a 25 goal a season striker".

[Lucy Waterman]

Corb Blimey!

How is this all going to pan out? Can we imagine a Labour split with people like me teaming up with (Christ) the Lib Dems and the Corbynistas merging with the Greens?

[N est à?]

Corb Blimey!

Yeah I think so- the former anyway. If half the PLP join the Lib Dems they become the official opposition, is that right? Maybe there was a long term strategic method in Nick Clegg's madness after all.