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Poll: Irish general election edition

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    Be interesting to see which votes have gone where.

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      Eamonn Ryan hangs on to power as the Greens leader ,here's to another 10 years of being pushed around and irrelevance.

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        Here's to electoral oblivion part 2 so.

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          Unsurprisingly, Saoirse McHugh departed earlier today - unelected to any office, but her next political party of choice will be interesting. Also, it seems FF will get the blame for any governmental slip-ups - a vote for Leas Ceann Comhairle (Deputy Speaker) was expected to be a routine win for the coalition candidate, Fergus O'Dowd, but somehow the independent Catherine Connolly secured the position, with the new Chief Whip, Jack Chambers, coming under fire for the defeat.

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            This was always going to happen when The Soldiers of Destiny and the Blueshirts were forced together, we'll have another election before next St Patrick's day.

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              Originally posted by Diable Rouge View Post
              Unsurprisingly, Saoirse McHugh departed earlier today
              Yeah, good for her.

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                Saoirse quitting in hissy fit will lead nowhere

                She won't go anywhere as an independent

                If she hung around she could have helped re-shape the Green Party once the government collapses and Ryan exits



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                  Maybe she doesn't want to be complicit in this nasty, shitty government As everyone sticking with the Greens there is.
                  Last edited by TonTon; 27-07-2020, 13:22.

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                    or alternatively, she's an attention seeking shit stirrer, continually creating conflict for the sake of it, with no aims or purpose in mind other than to gain attention as a righteous figure, free from compromise. Not content with peddling one brand of utopian bollocks she's a libertarian eco communist, and capable of flitting between all three to criticise anything that takes her fancy. There's a lot of this sort of person in ireland, there have been people like her before, and there will be people like her again. It's people like her that make it virtually impossible to construct any sort of progressive society, as any compromise with your coalition partners, or external reality to achieve your aims is used to beat you over the head, so that is all that is remembered, rather than any good you did. Still those people get a lot of attention, and no-one thinks that they're one of those compromisers.

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                      Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
                      or alternatively, she's an attention seeking shit stirrer, continually creating conflict for the sake of it, with no aims or purpose in mind other than to gain attention as a righteous figure, free from compromise. Not content with peddling one brand of utopian bollocks she's a libertarian eco communist, and capable of flitting between all three to criticise anything that takes her fancy. There's a lot of this sort of person in ireland, there have been people like her before, and there will be people like her again. It's people like her that make it virtually impossible to construct any sort of progressive society, as any compromise with your coalition partners, or external reality to achieve your aims is used to beat you over the head, so that is all that is remembered, rather than any good you did. Still those people get a lot of attention, and no-one thinks that they're one of those compromisers.
                      the people who make it impossible to construct a progressive society aren't the people who are consistent in their arguments that we should make society better...

                      the liberal fetish for pretending political seriousness is being the hand-wringing apologists for mass death is.

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                        Originally posted by Bizarre Löw Triangle View Post

                        the people who make it impossible to construct a progressive society aren't the people who are consistent in their arguments that we should make society better...

                        the liberal fetish for pretending political seriousness is being the hand-wringing apologists for mass death is.
                        The problem is, ultimately, Irish progressives have two choices - either reform their political parties from within, or strike forth and establish their own grouping. As far back as the Fifties and Sixties, Noel Browne was the original nomad, going from Clann na Poblachta to the National Progressive Democrats (like the current Soc Dems), through Fianna F?il and on to Labour. Likewise, Paul Murphy has been in the Socialists, United Left, Anti-Austerity Alliance, Solidarity and now his own entity of RISE. So, McHugh could end up in the Soc Dems, Sol-PBP or SF, but if they fail to meet her own bar for ideological purity, she'll swiftly move on again, rather than stand her ground and try to convince others.

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                          Originally posted by Bizarre Löw Triangle View Post
                          the people who make it impossible to construct a progressive society aren't the people who are consistent in their arguments that we should make society better...
                          Originally posted by Bizarre Löw Triangle View Post
                          the people who make it impossible to construct a progressive society aren't the people who are consistent in their arguments that we should make society better...

                          the liberal fetish for pretending political seriousness is being the hand-wringing apologists for mass death is.
                          I'm not a liberal. and there's nothing consistent about people like mchugh. She used to be an anarchist, then she joined the green party and tried to make it a branch of the AAA-PBP, and opposed them entering the govt because Green aims would be better achieved by protesting govt offices, rather than being inside them implementing policies. And now she's left. She's a rural green that campaigned with the turf cutters alliance, and is opposed to carbon taxes. She's just a run of the mill entryist who has been and gone, and all she has managed to do is sow division, and poison the well for anyone trying to actually implement policies rather than just ranting about it on twitter.

                          One of the things that was so surprising about 75% of the green membership voting for the programme for govt was that those people had essentially no twitter presence, and there was no sense on social media that three quarters of the party were in favour. This is because anyone who said anything would get hammered for being a neo-liberal and a fine gael lackey regardless of how many years they had been in the green movement, or how many years they had being pushing green economics.

                          We are the only country in the world with a Trotskyite party, that is opposed to property taxes, which is odd because houses make up 60% of the wealth store of this country. There is nothing consistent about these people. It's pathological behaviour rather than political philosophy. There's a lot of it going on in the UK. We've always had an element of it, but it's become the real route into irish politics for assorted anger farmers and shifty fuckers who are all prepared to look you in the eye and tell you that they will cut your taxes, and increase spending on you, and the only thing preventing this from happening is that everyone else is out to get you.
                          Last edited by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!; 27-07-2020, 17:23.

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                            Originally posted by Diable Rouge View Post

                            The problem is, ultimately, Irish progressives have two choices - either reform their political parties from within, or strike forth and establish their own grouping. As far back as the Fifties and Sixties, Noel Browne was the original nomad, going from Clann na Poblachta to the National Progressive Democrats (like the current Soc Dems), through Fianna F?il and on to Labour. Likewise, Paul Murphy has been in the Socialists, United Left, Anti-Austerity Alliance, Solidarity and now his own entity of RISE. So, McHugh could end up in the Soc Dems, Sol-PBP or SF, but if they fail to meet her own bar for ideological purity, she'll swiftly move on again, rather than stand her ground and try to convince others.
                            Noel Browne is a fascinating case. He could have got everything he wanted in the mother and child scheme through, if he changed the name. That's what fianna fail did after the election, because it was an obviously good idea. But Noel browne had the fatal weakness that he would start a fight with himself if there was no-one around to fight with, and if everyone agreed that his idea was good, he'd find a way to pick a fight. My dad worshipped noel browne, because he was saved by one of Browne's sanitoria, but even he bemoaned this fatal flaw.

                            Saorire mcHugh is no fucking Noel Browne. Noel browne had clear goals he wanted to achieve, and achieved far more than could have been thought possible. She's not going to join Sinn Fein, because the first rule of Sinn Fein is do what you're fucking told, read your fucking lines, and don't say anything else, or else. Only Cian O'Callaghan is really up for some aaa-pbp shenanigans in the Soc Dems, and she's far more likely to get the boot from roisin shortall and catherine murphy, than she was from Eamon Ryan. The problem is that she's never going to get elected in Mayo in a million fucking years. People in rural ireland want specific things from their independent td. and I don't know if they would be remotely interested in electing a candidate who would spend most of her time waving a placard, rather than doing the endless grind of constituency shite. And Mayo is not going to elect a AAA-PBP td in a million years. They have their own route to clientelism. Maybe she can become part of Ming's turf cutter alliance. My prediction, since she seems to have given up on electoral politics is that she'll try and make a bit of a living doing media work and keeping up her profile with a bit of protesting.

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                              Paul Murphy has changed parties only once, mind.

                              People have a very, very low bar for accusations of "ideological purity".

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                                Meanwhile the coalition appears to be incapable of moving forward without skidding on a banana skin or stepping on a rake.

                                The latest social welfare border guard activity against social welfare beneficiaries is petty and pathetic

                                What a waste of resources chasing minnows while the whales remain untouched


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                                  Hard to imagine any other Irish political figure who could either tweet, or at least dictate a tweet to a staff member, in fluent Spanish:

                                  https://twitter.com/PresidentIRL/status/1289288736501424128

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                                    Baby Dev?

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