Ethiopian Airlines plane crash

[Guy Profumo]

Or PanAm?

[ursus arctos]

The tariff would have been higher, but the approach just the same

Boeing is too deeply embedded in the US defence and export establishments.

As to Levin's point, I can personally attest to the fact that the spectre of personal liability focuses the mind of senior executives to a much, much greater extent than the prospect of fines

[Vicarious Thrillseeker]

Dear MR. Thrillseeker,

We set to return the B737 MAX back to the skies in the first week of February. Following months of rigorous monitoring and painstaking preparation, we are pleased to inform you that we set to return the B737 MAX back to the skies in the first week of February. As you may be aware of, the B737 MAX has undergone design modification work and rigorous recertification process which lasted for over 20 months. Accordingly, the American Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), European Union Aviation Safety Agency (EASA), the Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC), Transport Canada, the Ethiopian Civil Aviation Authority (ECAA) and other authorities have recertified the fleet type for commercial service. As a safety-first airline, we had promised that we would be among the last carriers to return this aircraft breed to the skies. So far, 36 airlines have returned the B737 MAX to commercial service, with over 329,911 revenue flights and more than 820,040 total flight hours. Throughout the recertification process, we have been closely monitoring the design modification work and the entire process, and we have made sure that our pilots, engineers, aircraft technicians and cabin crew are confident about the safety of the fleet type. We are fully prepared to take the B737 MAX back to skies! Once again, we would like to assure you that your safety will always remain our top priority!

Given the places I go to work, I don't have much choice but to use Ethiopian Airlines. This statement does not fill me with unbridled confidence.

[G-Man]

Are they the only airline to use those planes? If so, I'd be worried.

[ursus arctos]

The message notes that there are currently 35 others

[Sam]

This article claims 38.

[ursus arctos]

Not including Ethiopian

There are a lot of airlines, especially if one counts brands under common ownership individually.

The regional split there is interesting, and again illustrative of Boeing's dominance in North America.

[Sam]

I noticed that. I also noticed that the article makes no mention at all of any of the, erm, issues the aircraft has had.

[ursus arctos]

To be expected from an industry publication, alas.

Im sure that I can find one from my bailiwick that focuses solely on the ownership structures and financing strategies being used.

[Vicarious Thrillseeker]

I noticed that. I also noticed that the article makes no mention at all of any of the, erm, issues the aircraft has had.

Yes - I think the sunny, optimistic note sort of hides the reality of the fact that it was an Ethiopian Airlines plane that went down, killing all 157 people on it. I'm flying back from Cairo to Tanzania tomorrow - this time via Doha on Qatar - and I'm very glad it's not via Addis.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Given the places I go to work, I don't have much choice but to use Ethiopian Airlines. This statement does not fill me with unbridled confidence.

The one thing I'd take from that is that i'd be happy enough to fly on a plane that has been searched for faults by a company that realises it's one more 737 max crash away from ruin. Humans can make astonishingly reliable airplanes if they pay attention. This problem seemed to largely stem from boeing not paying enough attention any more.

[Sam]

A bit like 12 September, 2001 probably being the safest day to get on a plane in history. But it's easy to understand why people would have been nervous about doing so.

[Sam]

(For the record I definitely don't think the 'new' 737 Max will be the safest plane in history.)

[ursus arctos]

You couldn't get on a plane on 12 September 2001

[WOM]

This problem seemed to largely stem from boeing not paying enough attention any more.

I'm not sure what this means, but I think it's wrong anyway. Boeing tried to stretch a plane on the cheap, which dramatically altered its flying dynamic. And then they made a piece of technology - which would alert a pilot to a flying dynamic issue - a costly option. The sort of costly option that airlines from poorer countries wouldn't buy. This was criminal mismanagement.

Boeing also doesn't pay attention any more, as evidenced by random bits and pieces of garbage and metal shavings found throughout the fuselage of some of their most modern planes. The sort of thing that just shouldn't happen in a well managed operation.

[San Bernardhinault]

And then they made a piece of technology - which would alert a pilot to a flying dynamic issue - a costly option. The sort of costly option that airlines from poorer countries wouldn't buy. This was criminal mismanagement.

I was wondering about this, and whether it informs the fact that it's US operators who are flying the 737-MAX right now. They all already had the costly fix pre-installed.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

I'm not sure what this means, but I think it's wrong anyway. Boeing tried to stretch a plane on the cheap, which dramatically altered its flying dynamic. And then they made a piece of technology - which would alert a pilot to a flying dynamic issue - a costly option. The sort of costly option that airlines from poorer countries wouldn't buy. This was criminal mismanagement.

This is precisely the thing I mean. Doing shit without working through the various problems, and ensuring that it was safe. Making ultra reliable airplanes is a solved problem, Whether or not you adhere to the lessons painstakingly wrung out of every air crash is the thing in doubt.

[Sam]

You couldn't get on a plane on 12 September 2001

Spoilsport.

[S. aureus]

Which is why it was so safe.

[caja-dglh]

If you were to fly on September 12th and weren’t in the military I am not so sure that would have been the case.

[Sits]

One to watch: I’m told by an unsubstantiated source that this new Australian cut-price operator is getting itself a cheap fleet by exclusively picking up 737MAXes others no longer want. And no, I won’t be flying with them if they get that far:

[elguapo4]

I think the clue is in the stupid name.

[Vicarious Thrillseeker]

Another 737 crash - in China this time. Don't know if it's a Maxor not.

[Levin]

It's an 800

[WOM]

I won't post a link, but video shows it heading literally straight down toward the ground. This is after it lost 21,000 feet in a minute before apparently recovering briefly. Terrifying.