How about a sumo thread?

[Wouter D]

Day 11 highlights here.

Both Tokushoryu and Shodai struggled but prevailed today. Enho went in lower today, and promptly took out Asanoyama. Hokutofuji-Tamawashi was spectacular.

[Wouter D]

Yeah, that's true, that was some rag doll stuff.

Enho did beat Goeido yesterday, but Takakeisho had his number. Very one-sided.

[Anton Gramscescu]

Shodai v Shohozan was something. Have never seen Shodai just toss someone out of the ring like that.

Enho's adjustment to life in the joi may take some time. He was certainly game v. Takakeisho, but T's size and speed made it no contest.

[Wouter D]

Nothing much happened on Day 10.

Goeido needs to win five in a row to avoid demotion to Sekiwake, and this is where he starts to meet opposition from high up the banzuke. No way that this is going to happen.

Otherwise, the main remaining question is whether Shodai and Tokushoryu will slip up to give Takakeisho a shot at the yusho.

[Anton Gramscescu]

Unlike the ranks below it, Juryo is 15 bouts in 15 days, and it can be very hard to draw a meaningful line between the top of the second tier and the bottom of the top flight. There are a number of rikishi who make frequent trips between the two, in the manner of "elevator clubs" in football.

There are a number of guys vying for the title of being the West Ham of Sumo.

[Anton Gramscescu]

Tachi'ai opined yesterday that he was likely not to be promoted even if he went 15-0, which seems bonkers to me.

Depends a bit on what;s going at the top of J and bottom of M. When Endo was coming up he jumped from J13 to M13 on the basis of a 14-1 juryo yusho, so it's not impossible, but if there are only a couple of demotions and you get a bunch of J1-4s with 9-6 or 10-5 records, then it's possible 15-0 might not do it. Maybe given his former Ozeki status they'd wave him through but who knows. We may see.

LATER: just checked the standings. If you just look at the standings as they are today, there's only one guy definitely in the drop zone and that's Ikioi (plus probably Kotoyuki, who is kyujo, will get an 0-15 and almost certainly be at J1 next time because that;s exactly what they did to Tomokaze). But among the top juryo dudes, most have pretty mediocre showings, with Daishoho the only one with a strong case to go up. If these results continue (they won't, of course, but if they did), I'd have to believe a 15-0 or even a 14-1 would get Terunofuji that second promotion spot.

[ursus arctos]

Unlike the ranks below it, Juryo is 15 bouts in 15 days, and it can be very hard to draw a meaningful line between the top of the second tier and the bottom of the top flight. There are a number of rikishi who make frequent trips between the two, in the manner of "elevator clubs" in football.

[Kevin S]

Presumably second-tier sumo is a sufficiently tough test of how well his knees have recovered?

[ursus arctos]

Tachi'ai opined yesterday that he was likely not to be promoted even if he went 15-0, which seems bonkers to me.

[Anton Gramscescu]

I am not buying this Shodai thing. Nuh-uh. Not happening.

Tochinoshin looked OK today. Takayasu is fighting at about 40% I reckon. Sad to watch because you know he is so much better than this. Today was loss #6 which means he is deffo out of the Ozeki ranks.

I love Enho so much sometimes when he wins i think I am going to burst. That wasn't the most elegant of fights against a way-sub-par Goeido, but hey - first win against san'yaku opposition. He fights Takakeisho tomorrow and I can't wait.

Terunofuji 9-0. Having another Mongolian back at the top might be the cure for too much crap sumo.

[Wouter D]

Day 9 highlights here.

You probably could have made a significant amount of money at the bookmakers by predicting Tokushoryu to be the first to reach kachi-koshi in this basho.

The end of Tochiozan-Chiyomaru was remarkable. Both rikishi more or less upright at the bales, not in contact with each other, waiting to see which one will keel over first. I don't remember seeing such a thing before.

This day was substantially less fun than day 8, but there was some interesting stuff near the end.

[Anton Gramscescu]

1) My Takakeisho 2020 prediction is looking better every day.
2) Takayasu's perseverance in contesting an entire basho with only one arm is really something.
3) Don't look now, but Terunofuji is 8-0 in juryo and he may be back causing havoc in san'yaku a lot earlier than anyone thought.

[ursus arctos]

I should complain more often.

A much better day of sumo.

[Wouter D]

Day 8 is really spoiling us.

Terutsuyoshi and Yukatayama served up a good fight, Onosho had a great comeback versus Ishiura, and oh my that Endo-Enho bout...

[Anton Gramscescu]

Five-way tie at 6-1. And Goeido-Shodai was a lot of fun. The quality of sumo might not be that high but week two could still be a lot of fun.

[Anton Gramscescu]

Agreed re: quality, but days 6-10 often have a lot of crap matches in them. Dog days.

Also agree Takakeisho should be favourite, but Endo and Asanoyama could make it interesting. I started watching sumo just after his rise to the top stalled, but this is clearly the kind of stuff people were waiting for when he hit the big time six years ago.

[ursus arctos]

Perhaps I'm just cranky, but that was an underwhelming day of matches for me.

Too many guys are carrying injuries, and it seems as if the whole competition suffers when the Yoks aren't there (and the non-Takakeisho ozeki are struggling so much).

It is early, but I now expect Takakeisho to take this one without ever being excellent, which is disappointing.

[Wouter D]

There's something different about Enho this basho. He's not ducking under and going for the belt the way he usually does. I assume he's adjusting to other rikishis' adjustments, but it results in some very weird fights. Today against Onosho and the other day against Tochinoshin he left the tachiai quite high (for him). It doesn't look like a mistake, he's got a plan in mind I think, it;s just not clear what the heck it is (but it's not working).

Standing up taller might be a ploy to avoid Tochinoshin-style sky crane attacks. It clearly was not working in that bout.

It does feel as if Enho and his opponents are still seeking the right measures and countermeasures.

[Anton Gramscescu]

This site seems nice and clear to me:
http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Banzuke.aspx
Click on a score to see the results for that rikishi.

It suggests that tomorrow they have scheduled Asanoyama v Hokutofuji, which will be a key one.

Sumodb is a good site. There's also the official site which has some of the same functionality, and is where the next day's matches are first posted: http://www.sumo.or.jp/EnHonbashoMain/torikumi/1/6/.

Also: Abi-Takakeisho tomorrow in the musubi no ichiban (final match). Slapfest ahoy!

[Anton Gramscescu]

There's something different about Enho this basho. He's not ducking under and going for the belt the way he usually does. I assume he's adjusting to other rikishis' adjustments, but it results in some very weird fights. Today against Onosho and the other day against Tochinoshin he left the tachiai quite high (for him). It doesn't look like a mistake, he's got a plan in mind I think, it;s just not clear what the heck it is (but it's not working).

[Kevin S]

This site seems nice and clear to me:
http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Banzuke.aspx
Click on a score to see the results for that rikishi.

It suggests that tomorrow they have scheduled Asanoyama v Hokutofuji, which will be a key one.

[Kevin S]

And now there are six rikishi with 5-1 records.

[Wouter D]

And then there was one.

[Anton Gramscescu]

A very broad rule of thumb for movement on the banzuke is that your +/- is how many spots you will move. So an 8-7 probably bumps you up 1 rank, a 9-6 bumps you 3, 5-10 drops you 5, etc. The problem is sometimes at the top of the banzuke you get a logjam because no one from Sekiwake can move up to Ozeki, and further down you can get a big jam when a lot of people "ought" to be occupying the same rung (for instance, if the two M8s went 7-8 and the two M6s went 6-9, all four "ought" to be at M9, but that;s impossible, so that's where other considerations come into play, like who you won your matches against, the general strength of your opposition in the last basho, plus if you're a veteran you get cut some slack sometimes (for instance, by rule of thumb, Tochinoshin should be down around M10 this basho, but because he;s just down from Ozeki and his poor record was mostly down to injury they went easy on him and stuck him at M5).

Or sometimes you end up with a situation where everyone in a certain range does really badly (say, the M1-M4s, in a tournament where the san'yaku are all genki and beating the crap out of the lesser orders. Since a losing record has to drop, you can end up in a situation where an 8-7 from the M5 position moves you all the way up to M1 (which I think has happened at least once in the last 18 months - I think it's how Nishikigi got all the way up to M3)

Anyways, the committee considers all of this when coming up with the banzuke each tournament.

[Kevin S]

Ooh, that's really smart. So there's a committee that agrees the banzuke rather than it being an automatic thing based on rules or points. Cheers both.