I think the only thing I know of Cleveland for (other than shitty sports teams) is the river catching fire. And I'm not sure that's a good origin point for a baseball name. The Cleveland Aquaflames might be a good water polo team, or maybe even minor league ice hockey or arena football. But it doesn't feel right for baseball.
-
-
The 19th century sobriquet for Cleveland was "the Forest City" and that was in fact the name that their first professional team played under.
It hasn't worked for a long time.
In addition to Spiders and Blues (post-Forest City, pre-Indians names for the club) and Buckeyes (the name of the Cleveland entry in the Negro Leagues), the other popular contender is Guardians, from the beloved "Guardians of Transportation" on one of the major bridges.
Comment
-
If you want some interesting new names since the Appalachian League has shifted from a minor to a collegiate league all the teams have had to change from using their previous major league parent name. Which has produced some of these beauties:
Kingsport Axmen
Pulaski River Turtles
Greeneville Flyboys
Elizabethton River Riders
Bristol State Liners
Johnson City Doughboys
Burlington Sock Puppets
Comment
-
I've been swamped with work lately so haven't had a chance to dip back in here. I've said this before about spending but the thing that I can't figure out is big/market small market divisions that seem absolutely random. The Tigers ad Ilich paying out but before that run in the mid-2000s they were often talked about as a small market club. Yet, the Red Wings (NHL) were a big market club. How can two teams in the exact same market be classified in different ways, esp. when NHL money is generally poor compared to the other 3 sports. SF Giants = Big Market, As = Small market. It's the same damn media market with the same expensive real estate. Of course, the As were in a horrible stadium deal (and still are) but that's not small market. I get that teams like the Dodgers and Yankees and Mets have way more income so I'm not saying that Cleveland is the same as the NY teams or Dodgers/Angels but they were also a team with X number of years straight with sold out games. That income is less that monster TV rights deals, but Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, and Angels might have 2 sellouts in a row if they're lucky.Comment
-
I think you would find that those "classifications" are a lot more fluid, especially over time, than the owners and owner-friendly media would have you thinkComment
-
The MLB/NHL thing is easy to explain, nobody gives a shit about hockey in America so if more than 10% of the locals in your large American city care about hockey then you’re a pretty large market by definition. Detroit is still a top 10 US market IIRC, so they’re a pretty wealthy team. Pittsburgh, St Louis and Buffalo similarly punch above their weight because although they’re small markets in other sports, hockey is popular in each. Meanwhile three men and a dog watch the Kings and Sharks, and just the dog watches the Ducks, hockey is very much a sub cultural sport on the West Coast, like playing rugby or something.
the A’s no longer qualify for revenue sharing because of their market size, although in a certain way they probably are a small market club because they’ve underinvested so much in the last 25 years, whining about the stadium and letting every free agent go, that the Giants dominate the area.
the biggest example of this is Toronto, which seems to have convinced its fans that it’s a mid market club despite having a G8 country to itself.Comment
-
Going back to danielmak's post but how come teams like the Dodgers and, especially, the Yankees do not sell out every game. Considering the population of the two cities that seems kind of amazing.Comment
-
Ticket prices are a factor, as are 81 home games, many of which are on weekday nights.
In a regular season, the Yankees will now draw about three times as many fans as they did in my youth, despite the Stadium's capacity being significantly smaller.Comment
-
I will almost never go to a Dodger game on a weeknight. It's just too hard for my own personal situation. The last time I did, it was about 90 minutes to make the 15 miles there.Comment
-
Greenlander In addition to UA and Inca's points, I think the other issue is competition for attention in larger cities. LA and New York (pre-COVID) offer hundreds of things to do each night, whereas Cleveland is a smaller city. Also, LA and New York have two major league teams. In LA that might not matter as much because of traffic. When I was a kid, my dad mostly took me to Angels games because Anaheim Stadium was close to where we lived. As I got older and lived in LA, I never went back to Angels games. Dodger Stadium was easier and they were always my main interest. When I lived in New York, I mixed up the games a lot because where I lived in Manhattan was basically equidistant from Shea and Yankee Stadium. If I had money, bands weren't playing that I wanted to see, then I went to see whoever was at home. Ticket prices were certainly better at that time. Upper deck at Yankee Stadium was cheap and obstructed view at Shea was cheap and both teams were bad so I could always move to better seats and not be told to move.
I'd say that New York fans were much more passionate than Southern California fans but it's hard to explain how Cleveland could sell out every game between June 12, 1995 and April 4, 2001--455 straight games. (Wikipedia)Comment
-
New stadium, good team, NO CLEVELAND BROWNS.
Besides the other factors (I think traffic is a particular discouragement to going to see the Dodgers, everybody I know seems to regard getting to Chavez Ravine as an ordeal at the best of times), the Dodgers and Yankees play in the two largest stadiums in MLB, and there's really only so many good seats in a ballpark. Pretty much anything above the lower deck past the bag is gonna be a pretty crappy seat, so that knocks probably a good 10,000 seats into the undesirable category for each park.Comment
-
I haven't lived in LA since 1997, so prices have changed dramatically since that time but we used to buy $5 upper deck seats. They weren't great but they were good. We were behind home plate so had a good view. And once someone is used to sitting there, it's easy to judge fly balls versus home runs. Folks who didn't sit there much thought everything was going out. I also lived one hill away from Dodger Stadium for a few years, so admittedly my commute was nothing. About 10 minutes from my driveway to the seats.
Where I'm at now, Cubs are very easy. White Sox less so. And to UA's point, I rarely go to games because the cost is too much. I love baseball. I love going to the stadium. I was elated when the Cubs won, but they're not my team. So, it's not worth the money for me. I'd rather spend my money to see bands, eat out, go to the cinema form time to time and then just watch parts of games on TV since I'm paying an arm and leg already for satellite.Comment
-
It is also worth noting that tickets are only a fraction of the "all in cost" for most North Americans who attend sporting events.
Even in New York, a majority of fans will have driven to the game (and the percentage taking public transit is likely higher here than anywhere else in the US). It is completely normal now for parking to be double or triple the price of the cheapest ticket.
Food and drink prices are also extortionate, while outside food and drink (even a small bottle of water) is now banned virtually everywhere.
Most "total cost" calculations that I have seen have tickets at a quarter to a third of the total, with ancillary costs being particularly high if children are involved.Comment
-
Dodgers re-up with Turner for 2 years. I'm glad to see we could keep him but also not extend beyond 2. The loss of Kike and Joc, two good guys off the bench and clubhouse guys meant someone like Turner is important beyond his bat. And if the DH returns, which I expect it will as a last minute negotiation, then Turner and Rios can share time at third and DH.Comment
-
The Mets have invited Tim Tebow to Spring Training as apparently their roster is badly affected by Covid infections. Be interesting to see if he makes any actual Major League appearances though.Comment
-
He sells tickets in Port St Lucie
I would be shocked if he appears with the big club in a real gameComment
-
It is a self enforcing lack of scarcity. It is rather inconvenient to get to a game and there is always another one on a different day if it seems a hassle. There is no real need to secure a ticket in advance - with modern ticketing you have no need to buy a ticket really before you are checking out travel options to get to the ground.Originally posted by Greenlander View Post
It isn't just Baseball - the Knicks have been basically giving away tickets at various points the last decade ($10 with a beer and some concession food) with a location as convenient as physically possible. The theory for the Knicks is that if they didn't suck so bad then this would fix itself quickly - the front office has rather unkindly refused to test that theory out and stunk the place out for an eternity. Maybe Ursus can shed a little light on whether that fixes itself with the post pandemic Brooklyn Nets team with Durant and Irving. In theory that would be the choice ticket in New York right now.Comment
-
The second half of the summer of 2017 when Tebow played for the St Lucie Mets there were record attendances across the clubs in the Florida State League. He was a big draw, teams that get a few hundred most nights were hitting one thousand when he showed up.Comment
-
The Knicks are an interesting case study, because it took decades for them to lose the cachet that they had in the 70s (and rekindled to some extent in the Patrick Ewing/Spike Lee era). They regularly sold out for truly awful teams.
But at some point in the 2000s, people decided that they just had enough and weren't going to renew their season tickets. In part, that was due to it being the most likely way to get rid of the toxic Dolan ownership, but it was also just awful basketball and a depressing vibe.
They seem to have gotten better, but my guess is that it will take almost as long for them to get that back as it did to lose it.
The Nets should be the hot ticket, but a lot of people here still are weird about Brooklyn. I grew up with a version of that, but have never really understood it or shared it,Comment
-
Tebow is still huge among two key audiences for the Florida State League: white evangelicals and Florida Gators fansComment
-
Back to attending games, it sort of feels like the costs would be similar to a day at the test match. Only once did my dad and myself do any more than one day and that was the first three days at Lords against India back in 2007. It wasn't cheap.
Even with 81 games and the other options available in NY available I'm still surprised about the Yankees though.
I thought this was interesting.
https://www.valuepenguin.com/afforda...nding-mlb-game
Comment
-
It is rather similar with attending a Test, though less expensive tickets are usually available (given the larger capacity) and Test grounds tend not to have large parking lots that are associated with the clubComment
-
Absolute zero for the Orioles. What separates them from the Rockies?Comment
-
Fangraphs runs 10,000 simulated seasons based on their projections for each player.
The Orioles made the playoffs in fewer than five of the 10,000 simulations; Colorado made them between 15 and 24 timesComment
Comment