Ten Best and Ten Worst Stadium Moves of the New-Build Era

[Guy Profumo]

Blackpool seemed very bland. I look at that famous aerial image of a full Bloomfield Road (open kop and the stand with the Oh be Joyful advert) and wonder how they could (i) not create a proper kop when redeveloping and (ii) fail to use all that empty space properly so that one side of the ground remains hemmed in by housing and a mechanic's.

I really liked Rotherham's new ground, although I did have to move at half-time as the moaning old sod next to me was taking my anger level to 11. it was so sad to see Millmoor decaying nearby (never got to see a match there).

Main stand

Dormer windows

Director's box

Behind the goal

Open kop

Stan Mortensen

Isn't it?


(anyway. Didn't they move the pitch north to build a bigger stand on the footprint of the Bloomfield Road end and build up to the edge of the former Kop?)

[Baptiste]

(anyway. Didn't they move the pitch north to build a bigger stand on the footprint of the Bloomfield Road end and build up to the edge of the former Kop?)

Yes, one season around 2002 we were put in the South stand and there was a big gap to the pitch, as at the away end at Cambridge. I remember this because we missed a penalty at the far end in the first minute then collapsed to a 3-0 defeat.
Also been in both sides at Blackpool as an away fan, but not old enough to have done the open kop.

Went in both ends and the main stand as an away fan at Swindon in about 5 years around the turn of the century.
And 3 sides of Brentford.

[Stumpy Pepys]

I'd have to include FC Bayern in this. Although I find the Allianz Arena soulless, it's been a big success in terms of bums on seats. I'm not surprised that many fans didn't enjoy freezing their arses off in the Olympiastadion, with a running track around the pitch.

[Ray de Galles]

Yeah, it's not quite doing enough to trouble either a best or worst list. It's a pretty functional bowl, but with floodlights to save it from being too bland.

I thought you had fundamentally misunderstood the purpose of floodlights for a minute there until it struck me that it must be rare for a new-build bowl to have them.

Has it ever been covered why the club/designers went that way? How many other stadia are the same?

[jameswba]

I'd have to include FC Bayern in this. Although I find the Allianz Arena soulless, it's been a big success in terms of bums on seats. I'm not surprised that many fans didn't enjoy freezing their arses off in the Olympiastadion, with a running track around the pitch.

I was wondering about the Allianz. It didn't seem to work out well for 1860, but that would raise a whole other question ; cities where a new ground was built for two clubs to share.

[Uros Predic]

I thought you had fundamentally misunderstood the purpose of floodlights for a minute there until it struck me that it must be rare for a new-build bowl to have them.

Has it ever been covered why the club/designers went that way? How many other stadia are the same?

I'm not sure to be honest. If I ever did know, I now can't remember. Rotherham's stadium has two floodlight pylons, I think Brentford's new ground has a couple as well. Huddersfield and Bolton have four pylons in the corners, and the revamped Deepdale has them as well. I can't think of any others off the top of my head.

[Ray de Galles]

Is Deepdale a bowl now? I haven't been there in ages.

Anyway, maybe bowls with floodlights are not as rare as I'd imagined.

[Stumpy Pepys]

I was wondering about the Allianz. It didn't seem to work out well for 1860, but that would raise a whole other question ; cities where a new ground was built for two clubs to share.

I think groundsharing only really works if the clubs are a comparable size. Some of 1860's crowds at the Allianz Arena were very small indeed. But 1860 has not been a well-run club in recent years.

I also think my Sechzig-supporting friends (sample size two) are happier playing in the third division at the Gruenwalder, than having to traipse the the middle of nowhere to sit in a mostly empty stadium.

[Ray de Galles]

I was wondering about the Allianz. It didn't seem to work out well for 1860, but that would raise a whole other question ; cities where a new ground was built for two clubs to share.

I imagine that would have been the default at one time in much of Europe for towns and cities with two significant sides. Though less so nowadays maybe.

[Uros Predic]

Is Deepdale a bowl now? I haven't been there in ages.

No, not a bowl, still four distinct stands (least it was on my last visit), but it does have floodlights on corner pylons rather than on the front of the stand roof as is generally the norm on new or rebuilds.

[NHH]

It needs those pylons for structural reasons for holding the roofs up, so they might as well use them for shoving lights on.
Spotland's away side terrace had an open ditch toilet without a roof when I went there, so you could piss and carry on watching the game, which made up for fact that it was a lav someone from Tudor times would recognise.

One of the issue about all these new grounds is that they operate in an era of maximal pricing and - at the top flight - are all seater. Older grounds developed cultures on the basis of class and age; younger, poorer fans went on terrace, older, richer fans went for seating, or under cover. The fact that there was such a difference in facilities meant that different parts of grounds developed cultures over time. The modern all seater bowl is predicated on equal facilities, equal sightlines etc, and regardless of where you go, will cost a fucking fortune.

[elguapo4]

Not a new build, but Dalymount park is being rebuilt by Dublin City Council for Bohemians and Shelbourne to share. The Council are getting Shel's Tolka Park stadium for housing as part of the deal .

By the way, what's going into Griffin Park, I presume housing as usual.

[Jobi1]

No, not a bowl, still four distinct stands (least it was on my last visit), but it does have floodlights on corner pylons rather than on the front of the stand roof as is generally the norm on new or rebuilds.

The floodlights at Deepdale are absolutely mint – I'm guessing the design was based on/inspired by the Marassi in Genoa? The other thing I really liked about it on my visit a year or two ago was that in rebuilding the stands, they've retained the old turnstiles, so you scan your ticket in the obligatory barcode reader but then push through a beautiful, ancient-looking curly wrought iron contraption.

Less impressive was the stand to the left looking out from the away end (the side where the dugouts are), which appears to be unfinished but with no evidence of ongoing building work at the time I was there – there was a big gap at the back of the stand where you could see into a concrete floor with nothing in it (looks like it's intended to be exec boxes etc.). Is there any indication that something is going to happen with that space any time soon?

[My Name Is Ian]

New build non-league grounds are usually inferior to the ones they're replacing.

I think my favourite is probably Dartford. It's got a bit of character to it, particularly that wooden sculpture they've got behind one goal. (Presumably it's still there, it was when I went a few years ago.)

My least favourite is... almost all of the rest of them. We live in an age when cost and practicality are more important than anything else, and a large number of them have seemed pretty much of a muchness to me.

[Capybara]

(anyway. Didn't they move the pitch north to build a bigger stand on the footprint of the Bloomfield Road end and build up to the edge of the former Kop?)

Yes, one season around 2002 we were put in the South stand and there was a big gap to the pitch, as at the away end at Cambridge. I remember this because we missed a penalty at the far end in the first minute then collapsed to a 3-0 defeat.
Also been in both sides at Blackpool as an away fan, but not old enough to have done the open kop.

It begs the question (which we may have touched on before) as to what constitutes a new stadium. For example, both Bournemouth and Tottenham have new grounds where part of the stadium is built on part of the footprint of the old stadium. It's fairly clear that these are new stadiums. Deepdale, however, had successive stands built on the sites of old ones while the pitch remained, essentially, in the same place. Blackpool is somewhere in between, having shifted its playing surface about a quarter of a pitch length northwards.

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoo...layers=193&b=4

Leeds moved their pitch all over the place when they were developing Elland Road. I guess I'm asking myself whether I need to 'do' Bloomfield Road again.

[Greenlander]

The demise of proper floodlight pylons is the greatest architectural crime of the new build era.

[Ray de Galles]

It begs the question (which we may have touched on before) as to what constitutes a new stadium. For example, both Bournemouth and Tottenham have new grounds where part of the stadium is built on part of the footprint of the old stadium. It's fairly clear that these are new stadiums. Deepdale, however, had successive stands built on the sites of old ones while the pitch remained, essentially, in the same place. Blackpool is somewhere in between, having shifted its playing surface about a quarter of a pitch length northwards.

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoo...layers=193&b=4

Leeds moved their pitch all over the place when they were developing Elland Road. I guess I'm asking myself whether I need to 'do' Bloomfield Road again.

It's touched on upthread. Generally Tottenham is considered a whole new stadium because the footprint of the stadium moved but Bournemouth isn't as the pitch was just rotated 90 degrees. That does seem to imply that the footprint has changed but I suppose it's treated as pivoting on a fixed point or some such technicality.

Crucially, the Futbology (nee Groundhopper) app lists Bournemouth as the same ground.

[Greenlander]

Is this another subset. If we take Scunthorpe in 1988 as the pioneers of the new build era, which existing ground has changed the most and which the least. Apart from the location and the bare frame of the previous grandstand, 2020 Home Park is nothing like that of 30 years back.

[Capybara]

That surprises me about Bournemouth. It's absolutely a new ground for me:

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoo...layers=193&b=1

[Ray de Galles]

I may not be using your link properly but that map isn't showing the change from Dean Court to "Fitness First Stadum" (or whatever it's called now) for me.

[Uros Predic]

New build non-league grounds are usually inferior to the ones they're replacing.

Yes, absolutely this. As you say, aside from Dartford I struggle to think of a single example of an attractive newly built ground; Scarborough perhaps, or FC United of Manchester.

Otherwise they all seem to be 4G pitch with metal barriers, plus one, two or occasionally several pre-fabricated stands. There aren't many grounds in London that I've not visited now, but those that remain pretty much all fit this template.

[Walt Flanagans Dog]

Is this another subset. If we take Scunthorpe in 1988 as the pioneers of the new build era, which existing ground has changed the most and which the least. Apart from the location and the bare frame of the previous grandstand, 2020 Home Park is nothing like that of 30 years back.

The only change Carlisle have made to Brunton Park since then is to replace the East Stand in around 1996 (it is still called "the new stand" by many). Apart from cosmetic changes, the other three sides are unchanged from c. 1965 (and even then the change was to attach extensions either side of the "grandstand"). In recent years parts of the ground have done a reasonable job of passing for a 1950s Old Trafford (in a TV drama) and a 70s/80s Gallowgate end at Newcastle (in an advert).

[Artificial Hipster]

My first visit to Spotland was the last game of the 1992/93 season when we were still in with a shout of automatic promotion. Obviously a large away following was expected in the circumstances and we were given the usual away end, the terrace down the side (I seem to recall standing somewhere near the halfway line) and I'm pretty sure a block or two of the main stand as well.

You'll have been lucky enough to experience the luxury alfresco peeing experience referred to elsewhere then. I wasn't at the game you mention but I have no other recollection of away fans being given Wilbutts Lane in those days. Thinking about the old main stand though, as it was the only seated part of the ground back then I guess a part of it must always have been offered to away fans.

[Ray de Galles]

I think my favourite is probably Dartford. It's got a bit of character to it, particularly that wooden sculpture they've got behind one goal. (Presumably it's still there, it was when I went a few years ago.)

Still there as of November last year, though one one side (about level with the penalty spot) ;

[My Name Is Ian]

Excellent stuff.

I find myself increasingly crying out for some sort of pushback against this increased uniformity in football, but it makes me feel like an old man shouting at clouds.