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[Gerontophile]

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60 cruise missiles.

[Gerontophile]

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If he says "beautiful babies" one more fucking time...

[ursus arctos]

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Russians notified in advance, and target chosen to be "sure" that no Russian assets were at risk.

[anton pulisov]

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Gerontophile wrote: If he says "beautiful babies" one more fucking time...

There's just something creepy about him referring to minors as beautiful, isn't there.

What is he thinking? If they were 19 years older, he could be dating them?

[MsD]

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Hoping this will turn out okay, but he's as creepy as fuck.

[Gerontophile]

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Well, I wasn't actually meaning that, AP and MsD, but now that you mention it...

I was more about the fact that they are beautiful as long as they are not allowed into America.

[Incandenza]

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Worth pointing out for those abroad that earlier today Hillary Clinton called for bombing Syria, and that Schumer and Pelosi have supported Trump's bombing (despite Congress having no idea that this was being planned).

[linus]

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Bastards, the whole lot of them.

[Sam]

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I can barely believe I'm typing this, but ... what linus said.

Kev7 wrote: I was planning to visit the US next year or in 2019 with my wife to see old friends there, mainly in New-York and on the East & West coast (I studied English in France in the 80’s – the course was pretty US orientated too, history/civilisation/sociology/painting/literature/slang/etc., the lot, and flatshared with Americans during my studies in France), I worked there when I was much younger, been there 3 times, I have plenty of fantastic memories there and a real interest for many things American but I’m not sure I can be bothered to visit now, all these ridiculous measures (this ESTA, the extra security shite like what you’ve just posted and God knows what else) and the general mood really put me off the USA, not just me but my wife too (that and I must admit too, a fear of flying/claustrophobia/anxiety that I’m starting to develop with mid-to-long haul flights).

There must be many millions of people feeling like us throughout the world. Tourism will suffer, probably a drop in the ocean for such a huge country (and I doubt Trump gives two figs about that) but the damage in terms of image is likely to be severe.

Now I can finally enter and leave Argentina as I please, and given that it's quite a bit cheaper to fly from Buenos Aires to other places in the Americas than it is to fly from Buenos Aires to anywhere outside the Americas, there was a fair chance (if I pick up a bit more work than I currently have in the next 12 months) that we would have been planning a week in New York perhaps for some time next year. But yeah, since the election I've sort of decided I might wait until there isn't a fascist in charge of the country. Brazil or Colombia or Peru or Bolivia would be nice to visit too, and similarly new.

And yet I'm going for a visit back to the UK in a few months. Heh.

Hot Pepsi wrote: I'm even afraid to go to Canada right now for fear I won't be able to get back.

Surely they're not allowed to deny entry to American citizens?

[Geoffrey de Ste. Croix]

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I see that former implacable foes in the media, including our own sensible commentators are now on message. All Trump had to do was start a war. One would almost think that the reason the liberal fourth estate were so opposed to Trump in the first place was that he ran on an anti war ticket.

The liberal left media are a fucking death cult.

[E10 Rifle]

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They are indeed. Though that element of the left that downplays Assad and Putin's crimes (and calls the carpet-bombing of Aleppo a 'liberation') can also be so described.

One of the most 'plague on all their houses' scenarios of all time. Excepting Syrian democrats of course, but who gives a fuck about them?

[Etienne]

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Yes, I'm sympathetic to the view that a chemical weapons attack requires some sort of response, but a sociopath lobbing cruise missiles on a whim is hardly a convincing one.

[Gangster Octopus]

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And the other one - there is no sanity clause...

[Satchmo Distel]

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I think the bombing is purely a domestic gesture of machismo (some cock-waving at Obama's legacy) and is not meant to lead to escalation, but I don't think anyone can control the unintended consequences. There are too many unknown unknowns out there.

OTOH can the West really allow Assad to use chemical weapons on kids and do absolutely fuck all? This is a gesture by Trump to try to square that circle, but again, he can't control the fall-out. The idea that this bombing puts an end to (or "draws a line under") the dangers that Syria poses to the US is folly.

[E10 Rifle]

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Syria doesn't and never has posed a threat to the US.

Syria's government, and Isis, both pose a grave threat to Syrian people, however.

[WOM]

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So, basically...something needed to be done (but not this) by someone (but not him).
Assad should have been carpet-bombed in his home or his office about five years ago. He's a murderous tyrant and more lip service won't save lives any time soon.

[Tubby Isaacs]

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Truck in Sweden has driven into a department store killing at least 3 people.

Trump will be claiming the power of prophecy now, if it's an Islamic terrorist.

[Etienne]

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WOM, I'm not sure that there is overwhelming (or, indeed, any) evidence that removing murderous tyrants by carpet bombing saves any lives.

[WOM]

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Etienne wrote: WOM, I'm not sure that there is overwhelming (or, indeed, any) evidence that removing murderous tyrants by carpet bombing saves any lives.

And of course I agree with that. But that's not the question that needs answering. The murderous tyrant in question is clearly going to continue being a murderous tyrant regardless of how much the world condemns him or otherwise sanctions, implores or berates him. So if you see the situation as untenable, your decisions become 'do we do something drastic and hope for the best' or 'do we continue along this path and hope something else changes'. I'd argue they've been doing b) for the past few years. Maybe a) is the only option now, with the consequences to be dealt with next/later. If the massive refugee crisis doesn't make you think something needs to be actually done-done, maybe you're not in the doing-something business. (Not 'you' of course, but 'one'.)

[Amor de Cosmos]

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WOM wrote:

WOM, I'm not sure that there is overwhelming (or, indeed, any) evidence that removing murderous tyrants by carpet bombing saves any lives.

And of course I agree with that. But that's not the question that needs answering. The murderous tyrant in question is clearly going to continue being a murderous tyrant regardless of how much the world condemns him or otherwise sanctions, implores or berates him. So if you see the situation as untenable, your decisions become 'do we do something drastic and hope for the best' or 'do we continue along this path and hope something else changes'. I'd argue they've been doing b) for the past few years. Maybe a) is the only option now, with the consequences to be dealt with next/later. If the massive refugee crisis doesn't make you think something needs to be actually done-done, maybe you're not in the doing-something business. (Not 'you' of course, but 'one'.)

No, there is a 'c' — and possibly d, e, etc. too — we just don't appear to have the collective imagination to work towards it.

(Sorry, didn't intend to leave this hanging, but got interrupted and now I've an appointment. Back to this in an hour or so)

[ursus arctos]

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Gorsuch confirmed

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

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will trump have a moment of doubt, when his genius son tells him that Maybe it wasn't chemical weapons at all. Maybe it's just what happens when you incinerate poisonous skittles.

[WOM]

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Amor de Cosmos wrote: No, there is a 'c' — and possibly d, e, etc. too — we just don't appear to have the collective imagination to work towards it.

Of course there are. I totally agree. But those should have been in motion for years and years already, and they haven't. Speaking for today, a serious response to the gas attack was absolutely necessary. And not some fucking pointless UN sanctions or 'international condemnation'.

[Hot Pepsi]

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Why don't we ever try to blow-up the HQ of evil tyrants? Would it kill too many civilians or is it just regarded as unsporting?

[Lang Spoon]

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It is Bad Form to straight up assassinate your enemies. Which is convenient for the type of feckers who draw up the Rules of War, though probably sensible. You'd have assasinations and poisonings of Heads of State all over the shop, like La Reine Margot without the heaving bosoms.

This strike is a fucking charade anyways. He didn't tell anyone in Congress about the $82 million missile drop, but did phone Putin and Assad(!) beforehand with his plans. So no materiel bar the fucking concrete really affected.

To really "solve" Syria, might require over a million ground troops in for the long haul occupation. But if the French didn't have the stomach to finish the job in Algeria (they had all but wiped out the FLN's capability upon withdrawal, it was politics that led De Gaulle to the u-turn) I can't see any NATO or Arab state being more steel willed. Turkey is overstretched with its wee internal matter anyway.