Trump's Card

[Tubby Isaacs]

Yeah, I get that it's important for lots of Republican politicians, but he'd have been made well aware of that ages ago. In so far as you can rationalize Trump, I'm not convinced he fought very hard or gave in late in the day.

It looks like a big mistake. He'd have had lots more cover for his "economic populism" if he'd done what he said.

[San Bernardhinault]

Satchmo, I was responding to SB's apparent assertion that neither Obstruction nor Perjury were "serious" crimes.

They're clearly serious crimes. But in Watergate, they were related to the fact that Nixon was undermining the democratic process and thoroughly abusing his power. The Obstruction of Justice was in service of Nixon basically undermining the US state. As far as I can tell, Trump's obstruction of justice seems to be in service of protecting his pathetic, fragile ego. If there was actual collusion, then it's another matter entirely. But, so far, we don't seem to have collusion between the Trump Campaign and Russia. We have connections between them, but that's it so far.

[ursus arctos]

I dunno.

One could see Watergate as being Nixon undermining the democratic process and abusing his power to cover up a burglary looking for "dirt" on an opponent in an election that he was always going to win easily. The Trump campaign's interest on "dirt" on their opponent was in the context of a much more uncertain election.

Tubbs, there has never been any interest in the Republican Congressional delegation for "economic populism"; there's barely any interest in the Democratic delegation.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I was talking about Trump specifically.

[ursus arctos]

How he is supposed to enact such an agenda without the support of Congress?

[Satchmo Distel]

Trump's been tweeting about infrastructure spending but that is obviously not going to fly. He can say he tried and Congress fucked him over but surely even the most think Trumptard knows you cannot cut taxes and have the spending. It's a con job and he knows it. Same with the coal jobs obviously. But will the miners and infrastructure workers realize this by 2020?

[Femme Folle]

I feel really scared about where we're going. I'm listening to a report on TV about Navalny being barred from running against Putin based on a trumped up fraud conviction (pun intended). With all of the anti-FBI and anti-Mueller rhetoric being spread by trump and Fox News, it's not difficult to imagine trump trying to change the laws to give himself more power. It's what he wants more than anything. We have bigger things to worry about than taxes and healthcare right now.

Has anyone read David Cay Johnston's book "It's Even Worse Than You Think: What the Trump Administration Is Doing to America"?

[anton pulisov]

Yeah, he's allowing the Heritage Foundation to fill up the courts.

[anton pulisov]

Trump's been tweeting about infrastructure spending but that is obviously not going to fly. He can say he tried and Congress fucked him over but surely even the most think Trumptard knows you cannot cut taxes and have the spending. It's a con job and he knows it. Same with the coal jobs obviously. But will the miners and infrastructure workers realize this by 2020?

I think they will. They voted for Obama and then turned on the Democrats when they didn't deliver. Trump is actively screwing them over, which is much worse than simply not delivering.

If the Democrats run anybody with any sense of connection with the middle classes then Trump will be absolutely pummelled in 2020. Also consider that the population of Florida is gaining thousands of pissed off Puerto Ricans every week. The real question is how long Ryan and friends will persist with Trump once they get what they need out of him. However, don't discount how immensely disconnected from reality Paul Ryan is.

[Tubby Isaacs]

How he is supposed to enact such an agenda without the support of Congress?

Do what he always does, send out some tweets. If he can launch bizarre attacks on Jeff Sessions, he can do that. He didn't, so I'm inferring he didn't try very hard.

I might be misjudging it from this distance, but carried interest seemed like a fairly significant promise from Trump. Without that it's not "economic populism" it's supercharged Romney, except unpopular in suburbs. That'll cost a lot of Congress people their seats.

[ursus arctos]

I would suggest that you are misjudging its importance to his voters, and particularly his base.

He and they care infinitely more about "the wall", which was also DoA in Congress.

[Tubby Isaacs]

There seemed to be a lot of "Trump will stop favours to Wall Street" types online before the election. I suppose he can say he scrapped TPP, but I think he's got a problem.

I don't know how to take these "wall" people. If he beefs up a few bits of the fence and sends round a load of pictures, are they going to be disappointed? Do they take him "seriously but not literally", as some have said?

[ursus arctos]

The anti-Wall Street con was abandoned as soon as he filled the Administration with Goldman alums and guys like Wilbur Ross

The Build the Wall crowd will go for whatever Fox tells them. Few of them have encountered an undocumented personin real life.

[ursus arctos]

Roy Moore is challenging the certification of the Alabama results over vague claims of "voter fraud"

[Tubby Isaacs]

People are going to donate to this Ron Hopeful rubbish?

[Satchmo Distel]

Moore is using the Trump playbook.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Is even Trump using the Trump playbook here?

[Tubby Isaacs]

I think they will. They voted for Obama and then turned on the Democrats when they didn't deliver. Trump is actively screwing them over, which is much worse than simply not delivering.

If the Democrats run anybody with any sense of connection with the middle classes then Trump will be absolutely pummelled in 2020. Also consider that the population of Florida is gaining thousands of pissed off Puerto Ricans every week. The real question is how long Ryan and friends will persist with Trump once they get what they need out of him. However, don't discount how immensely disconnected from reality Paul Ryan is.

I don't think coal people voted for Obama, did they?

Looking at West Virginia, it swung massively away from the Democrats in 2000, perhaps because of Gore's association with environmentalism, and stayed there. Obama lost by 13 and 27 points.

[ursus arctos]

There are 50,000 coal miners in the US.

Every single one of them has been interviewed by both the New York Times and the Washington Post.

Wyoming produces about three and half times as much coal as West Virginia.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I said "coal people", Ursus. It's not just a case of people directly employed as miners now.

But I am familiar with the way the media works with this sort of stuff. We had the same over here with fishermen in the EU referendum.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

there are probably more Irish dancers than coal miners in the US. it's grimly hilarious how the right will pick on some really basic, near obsolete job because it resonates with people and old people are familiar with it.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Yeah, it's because they can pin the downfall of a proper working class industry on something lefty, like reducing emissions or keeping up fish stocks.

[Tubby Isaacs]

It doesn't really work for them over here with miners, because of the strikes in the seventies and eighties.

If the NUM had gone along meekly with pit closures, they could have some British Trump now, bullshitting about coal coming back.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I see, by the by, that West Virginia, has more miners than Wyoming. In 2015, about twice as many.

[E10 Rifle]

It doesn't really work for them over here with miners, because of the strikes in the seventies and eighties.

If the NUM had gone along meekly with pit closures, they could have some British Trump now, bullshitting about coal coming back.

True, but only up to a point. I remember when Heseltine announced the 1992 pit closure programme – once the miners' militancy had been properly crushed – there was an outpouring of sympathy, and what was, until Iraq, the largest central London demo of the late 20th century. It helped cement the Major government's unpopularity in the aftermath of Black Wednesday. People were on the miners' side by then.