Assange...

[Mr Delicieux]

Well, it seems to. But his whole deal doesn't seem quite as clean-cut as that. I mean, from what I've read over the years, he keeps some pretty dodgy company and appears to uh...inspire people to hack information as much as he does just 'journalist' it into the light once it's been found / hacked / stolen. It seems like a lot of really, really gray areas. That's putting it lightly, btw.

He's a dirty pawn in a very dirty game.
I think it's possible to think he's a terrible person while also thinking that he's revealed some quite awful truths.
my concern is that the focus has remained on him rather than what it is he revealed.

[Nefertiti2]

So you won't read the links I post but you attempt to refute them on the basis of what "you've read over the years"

American forces massacred civilians in cold blood. Wikileaks published details in conjunction with the Guardian New York Times, Der Spiegel, Le Monde and El Pais.

is that a grey area too?

[WOM]

So you won't read the links I post but you attempt to refute them on the basis of what "you've read over the years"

American forces massacred civilians in cold blood. Wikileaks published details in conjunction with the Guardian New York Times, Der Spiegel, Le Monde and El Pais.

is that a grey area too?

No, I didn't say I wouldn't read what you linked to. I asked ad hoc if there was something specific that made the extradition request 'stink'.

I understand the story about the American forces massacre. That's not the gray area. What I said was that other Wikileaks entanglements seemed to be gray areas. Such as his publishing hacked Democrat emails that clearly have no 'war crimes' value, but sought to undermine the US election and may indeed have handed the last 4 year to Trump. Do you not see his involvement in that troublesome in a way that makes his other work more suspect? My point, which I also made already, was that I question whether he in indeed a journalist or whether he just hides behind the good name established by others who have consistent journalistic principles to uphold.

[Nefertiti2]

Do you not see his involvement in that troublesome in a way that makes his other work more suspect?

No.

[WOM]

..on the basis of what "you've read over the years"

To this point, you can't ignore what you've accrued over a period of time. Assange, to most people on this thread - me included - is dodgy as fuck on a number of levels. When you behave as he has, it makes it less clear what you've done and why you did it. Maybe we're all suckers and we've fallen for this attempted rape smear and maybe he had nothing to do with Russian hacks. And maybe he had a good reason to take asylum for 7 years, etc etc. But taken in totality, it's hard to see him as a simple journalist with a noble mission of truth.

[ursus arctos]

I'd have more sympathy for that point of view if there was any evidence that extradition would lead to a thorough examination of those allegations.

But there isn't any.

Which is of course understandable given that the current administration has been labouring ceaselessly to make sure that doesn't happen.

[ad hoc]

If he was being extradited to Sweden, I'd be delighted. He's not. They're trying to extradite him for revealing war crimes. Surely you can see that? Whether or not he personally is a cunt is not the issue here. Seriously, you can see that, right? I'm struggling to rein in my incredulity here.

[DCI Harry Batt]

I don't really have the reverence for "journalists" or "journalism" that some do anyway. And Assange is obviously a hideous person. I don't see how that makes any difference to whether or not he should be extradited to the US to be punished for whatever his part was in the publishing of material showing the US to have carried out war crimes.

He shouldn't, simply enough.

[WOM]

[to ursus' post]

Well, yes, of course. There's also the not-bewildering fact that governments don't want all and sundry leaking their private information. ie, Assange, Manning, Snowden, Winner, etc. Yes, I'm sure each had their own reason for leaking, but the government can't simply 'not respond' and hope the problem goes away.

[WOM]

If he was being extradited to Sweden, I'd be delighted. He's not. They're trying to extradite him for revealing war crimes. Surely you can see that? Whether or not he personally is a cunt is not the issue here. Seriously, you can see that, right? I'm struggling to rein in my incredulity here.

For the sake of your blood pressure, yes I can see that.

[S. aureus]

Apparently this is a bit of a controversial take, but maybe governments shouldn't commit war crimes in the first place.

[MsD]

I agree the filthy rapist scum should not be deported to the US.

I can name worse, convicted rapists who are out after three years. I personally don't subscribe to the "rape is rape" belief, some rapes are definitely worse than others.

So, although I instinctively don't like him, and think him a narcissist rather than an idealist, and probably a predator, I do think he's done his time and should be freed. Other evidence can be brought against him if appropriate, but really, who else gets banged up for such a long time, with no clear release date?
The uncertainty of his sentence must be like mental torture.

[WOM]

So, although I instinctively don't like him, and think him a narcissist rather than an idealist, and probably a predator, I do think he's done his time and should be freed. Other evidence can be brought against him if appropriate, but really, who else gets banged up for such a long time, with no clear release date?
The uncertainty of his sentence must be like mental torture.

Wait....done his time for what?

[Lang Spoon]

If he hadn't tried to evade justice and spent years stinking and being an obnoxious creep in an embassy he'd have either been found not guilty by a Swedish court or been released by now. That was all on him.

[WOM]

Quite. And the fact that he's been incarcerated for so long while awaiting this extradition ruling is down to him being a big ol' flight risk.

[Snake Plissken]

I *think* the only time he has done is the time in a UK jail for skipping bail.

[MsD]

If he was being extradited to Sweden, I'd be delighted. He's not. They're trying to extradite him for revealing war crimes. Surely you can see that? Whether or not he personally is a cunt is not the issue here. Seriously, you can see that, right? I'm struggling to rein in my incredulity here.

This.

[Nefertiti2]

The tactic of drawing attention to the crimes of the messenger to distract from the war crimes of the US government seems to be working pretty well- in Canada anyway.

[WOM]

The tactic of drawing attention to the crimes of the messenger to distract from the war crimes of the US government seems to be working pretty well- in Canada anyway.

He's a hacker who publishes stolen classified documents. The fact that one of them revealed a war crime seems to give him unlimited impunity.

[WOM]

Or consider this: the US committed a crime and Assange did as well.

[MsD]

Yes, probably, but the US isn't in prison.

[DCI Harry Batt]

[to ursus' post]

Well, yes, of course. There's also the not-bewildering fact that governments don't want all and sundry leaking their private information. ie, Assange, Manning, Snowden, Winner, etc. Yes, I'm sure each had their own reason for leaking, but the government can't simply 'not respond' and hope the problem goes away.

They could not do the war crimes, maybe?

[DCI Harry Batt]

I do think he's done his time and should be freed. Other evidence can be brought against him if appropriate, but really, who else gets banged up for such a long time, with no clear release date?
The uncertainty of his sentence must be like mental torture.

He's only been in prison cos of running off into hiding, hasn't he?. He was hiding for a long time, but that wasn't imprisonment.

[Incandenza]

He's a hacker who publishes stolen classified documents. The fact that one of them revealed a war crime seems to give him unlimited impunity.

Do you want to see Daniel Ellsberg thrown in jail?

[WOM]

Do you want to see Daniel Ellsberg thrown in jail?

No, but Daniel Ellsberg can't be the de facto answer every time someone leaks state secrets.