Sir Keir Starmer - Labour Party Leader

[Discordant Resonance]

Clear by now that voters aren't actively gravitating towards Starmer (which, for all his flaws, Blair achieved in spades in his opposition period), but rather against the Tories, and as a consequence, LOTO is utterly lagging his party's poll numbers:

https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1614352489280835584

Moreover, the failure to convince on the health and rail strikes suggests the public are unenthusiastic about the current Labour vision, seeing them as the milquetoast lesser of two evils:

https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1614352506385235968

https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1614352513251041282

[Nefertiti2]

Sir Keir Starmer KC showing his commitment to Labour values by attacking the NHS in the Sunday Telegraph

https://twitter.com/brokenbottleboy/status/1614398498400526336?s=20&t=L0KXcopjab82vyaXOZk0Bg

[Nefertiti2]

As former OTFer @The Horse points out the idea that your shouldn't involve the Gp when you notice bleeding is criminally stupid

https://twitter.com/jackseale/status/1614406898630987778?s=20&t=WFT8UoFak4zwa8aJb_3Kyw

[Kowalski]

One of his points seems to be "Why can't you do tests at home?".

Perhaps you need some kind of medical training to interpret the tests properly? When I was younger "using your Mum's dictionary of symptoms to find out what's wrong" proved to be a rather stressful attempt at doing my own research. Who knew that certain symptoms belong to more than one ailment?

What's wrong with "train more staff to treat more people" as a general policy?

[DCI Harry Batt]

I don't get this point of this stuff. Who is it for, this posing?

[Jimski]

Yeah it's really odd - I can't see it appealing to anyone really.

[Nefertiti2]

Maybe one of the private health advisors who
aee funding the party make tests. Or can use this in their efficiency drive to loot gp practices

https://twitter.com/brokenbottleboy/status/1614553700609015810?s=21&t=JEcZ39ONaf2y2pa657Qs1A

[DCI Harry Batt]

That explanation doesn't make any sense to me either, mind. I mean, ignoring that there's no need to use these things to signal to those people, the market for tests is enormous and suppliers struggle to meet demand and nationalising general practice doesn't seem to me to be an obvious boon for private health. I guess you might see some marginal increase in private provision of physiotherapy to NHS patients via self-referral.

[Nefertiti2]

https://twitter.com/jrc1921/status/1614556628430241792?s=20&t=8P184cWOkGKvJKPVkNaoGg

[Snake Plissken]

I don't get this point of this stuff. Who is it for, this posing?

The editors of the Mail and the Torygraph.

[Nefertiti2]

That explanation doesn't make any sense to me either, mind. I mean, ignoring that there's no need to use these things to signal to those people, the market for tests is enormous and suppliers struggle to meet demand and nationalising general practice doesn't seem to me to be an obvious boon for private health. I guess you might see some marginal increase in private provision of physiotherapy to NHS patients via self-referral.

no-one said "nationalising". One way of removing the independence of GP practices would be having more consolidated into US private healthcare chains as has been happening in London

[Nefertiti2]

people have stopped using 'forensic" about Starmer, even if meant parodically


you can see why

https://twitter.com/etymologic/status/1614601623568879617?s=20&t=GWOhmtQR0eZe1NUQ36LhGg

id go with dyspeptic, adenoidal and dumb

[ursus arctos]

Suggesting that "testing at home" is the optimal answer to "bleeding" would seem extreme even to those reliant on the US "health care system"

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

All of this nonsense, is expectation management. I don't think people realise how fucked the UK is. Health spending on britain's aging population is exploding, and there's no fucking money to pay for it. The money has to be taken from everything else. Changing the Government isn't going to change that. Nurses need to be paid more, but they can't do that, because all the money you might scrape together to do that is going to be needed for.the healthcare needs of the third of the population who are 60% of the way to retiring. You also can't pay nurses more, without paying similar increases to the rest of the public sector. You could raise taxes, but the tories are doing that anyway, and by the time of the next election there isn't going to be room to do that any more, because that's something you can only do once because the UK's economy doesn't grow.

I mean they could promise to pay nurses more, they could promise that everything is alright, and that might make people happier in the short term, but all of those promises would be broken on the first day, because there's no fucking money. The thing that annoys me is not this, but that there is no fucking plan to try and fix the economy. The only practical steps I can possibly think of, are for the Scots and the welsh to get the fuck out of this doomed mess, before it is too late.

[Nefertiti2]

All of this nonsense, is expectation management. I don't think people realise how fucked the UK is. Health spending on britain's aging population is exploding, and there's no fucking money to pay for it. The money has to be taken from everything else. Changing the Government isn't going to change that. Nurses need to be paid more, but they can't do that, because all the money you might scrape together to do that is going to be needed for.the healthcare needs of the third of the population who are 60% of the way to retiring. You also can't pay nurses more, without paying similar increases to the rest of the public sector. You could raise taxes, but the tories are doing that anyway, and by the time of the next election there isn't going to be room to do that any more, because that's something you can only do once because the UK's economy doesn't grow.

I mean they could promise to pay nurses more, they could promise that everything is alright, and that might make people happier in the short term, but all of those promises would be broken on the first day, because there's no fucking money. The thing that annoys me is not this, but that there is no fucking plan to try and fix the economy. The only practical steps I can possibly think of, are for the Scots and the welsh to get the fuck out of this doomed mess, before it is too late.

berbaslug with a Nation's credit card approach to the budget,

[DCI Harry Batt]

It's very silly, this whole "there's no money" thing.

[Nefertiti2]

https://twitter.com/mattzarb/status/1614659299623550979?s=20&t=LgnS6j8AxUdWND4WRfFuxQ

[Nefertiti2]

That explanation doesn't make any sense to me either, mind. I mean, ignoring that there's no need to use these things to signal to those people, the market for tests is enormous and suppliers struggle to meet demand and nationalising general practice doesn't seem to me to be an obvious boon for private health. I guess you might see some marginal increase in private provision of physiotherapy to NHS patients via self-referral.

another suggestion on why he mentioned "internal bleeding"

https://twitter.com/TKispeter/status/1614634826102972417?s=20&t=IMe63HGjga8EfWbGxOgFpA

and if it wastes the GP's time for the patient to go to them for triage won't it waste the time of the specialist or the physiotherapist when the patient goes straight to them

[Kowalski]

It's very silly, this whole "there's no money" thing.

I've started to wonder about the point of voting if our government, and those willing to form a government, don't even aspire to doing anything constructive because they believe in nebulous cliches that don't stack up.

I'm not suggesting that the government continually directly intervenes in our daily lives but if they're passionate about creating "a Britain that everyone can be part of" they should have the decency to provide a framework that allows a more utilitarian society to develop.

[Snake Plissken]

The entire thing about current UK politics - especially neoliberalism - for the last few years is not doing anything. Remember how Blair and Cameron used to hold their hands up and say "there's nothing I can do, I'm only the Prime Minister." The lack of ideology, and therefore the desire to change things is the point. Managerialism, technocrats, whatever you want to call it, that's what these people aspire to. They don't want to do anything, as long as there are in charge of it. That's why everything is political theatre, give the correct speeches, appear at the photo op, write the occasional book that no-one reads. The bits that aren't are the ruthless suppression of anyone who can threaten that.

The distance between politicians and the people is vast. The only interaction is the four year cycle, which is seen as an annoying interruption (remember how irritated Cameron was by the idea of having to campaign? And how annoyed everyone gets when the Leadership polls go to the actual members and not the MPs because they have a terrible habit of not doing as they are told) and only serves to emphasise the central message of "oh shut up and tick the damn box for our side, will you?"

Edit: Labours entire strategy is literally "Who else are you going to vote for? The Tories?" It's a bugger that CallMeNick managed to fuck up the idea of a viable protest vote for a generation.

[Kowalski]

Good points, I'm just shouting into the ether yet again. I just can't turn off the questions that keep popping in my head, For example......

We had the Keynesian period for roughly 34 years then ditched that scene because of the Union barons and inflation blah blah blah. We've had the market-based approach for roughly 43 years and we're suffering from inflation-related problems,

They spout guff about TINA but social activity isn't governed by Newton's Laws or gravity like physical objects are and "Society" in its present form wasn't plonked here by an enlightened deity. We can construct society in any way we choose to, and the political will is there.

Why isn't a party that's supposedly committed to social justice pointing this out and agitating for change? I imagine that quite a few people would like more secure employment, better public services and less poverty.

And another thing, how do you turn off the reels on facebook?

[George C.]

The entire thing about current UK politics - especially neoliberalism - for the last few years is not doing anything. Remember how Blair and Cameron used to hold their hands up and say "there's nothing I can do, I'm only the Prime Minister." The lack of ideology, and therefore the desire to change things is the point. Managerialism, technocrats, whatever you want to call it, that's what these people aspire to. They don't want to do anything, as long as there are in charge of it. That's why everything is political theatre, give the correct speeches, appear at the photo op, write the occasional book that no-one reads. The bits that aren't are the ruthless suppression of anyone who can threaten that.

The distance between politicians and the people is vast. The only interaction is the four year cycle, which is seen as an annoying interruption (remember how irritated Cameron was by the idea of having to campaign? And how annoyed everyone gets when the Leadership polls go to the actual members and not the MPs because they have a terrible habit of not doing as they are told) and only serves to emphasise the central message of "oh shut up and tick the damn box for our side, will you?"

Edit: Labours entire strategy is literally "Who else are you going to vote for? The Tories?" It's a bugger that CallMeNick managed to fuck up the idea of a viable protest vote for a generation.

Decent post, but most pundits/commentators never seem to factor in the state of the (Brit) electorate, which I think dictates collective political behaviour more than most acknowledge or appreciate.

Certainly an issue, my pollster acquaintance is always banging on about.

Reckon it contributes enormously to volatility of general polling.

[Snake Plissken]

Why isn't a party that's supposedly committed to social justice pointing this out and agitating for change? I imagine that quite a few people would like more secure employment, better public services and less poverty.

Because when it did, some people threw a tantrum of historic levels. And those people are now in charge of that party.

Wes Streeting, Jess Phillips and Rachel Reeves couldn't give a flying shit about social justice.

[Kowalski]

Because when it did, some people threw a tantrum of historic levels. And those people are now in charge of that party.

Wes Streeting, Jess Phillips and Rachel Reeves couldn't give a flying shit about social justice.

Yes carrying the Britpop baton from Mandelson, Blair and Blunkett et al.

Just ranting into the ether again. Doesn't do any good, or change anything I know.

[Nefertiti2]

https://twitter.com/michael_chessum/status/1614921466327273472?s=20&t=wroCDg0qhHCKTvRWik97vA

What was it Dawn Foster said about Streeting?



Oh yes

https://twitter.com/fancywookiee/status/1614180016002039808?s=20&t=Oidh95Nt_QGlbdQwE5OqhQ