We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland

[blameless]

We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland

Jancker had one good season for Rapid Vienna and half a good season for Bayern.

He was far more Vratislav Lokvenc than Jan Koller.

[Renart]

We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland

I don't follow the Bundesliga or Serie A closely, but it seems like I don't hear or see Klose's name much outside of the World Cup, when he suddenly becomes Superman.

Presumably he's not bad at the club level, too?

[blameless]

We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland

Anyway, I wasn't making the point that Klose is better than Jancker - I was making the point that in a dozen years, Germany have gone from Jancker, Carsten Ramelow and Jörg Böhme to Toni Kroos, Sami Khedira and Thomas Müller; which is the evolutionary equivalent of going from dinosaurs to space travel.

[treibeis]

We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland

Anyway, I wasn't making the point that Klose is better than Jancker

No, I didn't think you were. Although you could have - Klose is one of the best all-round forwards I've ever seen in the Bundesliga. Lots of Lukas Podolski's goals for Germany - and there have been a lot - have been down to Klose's approach work.

The thing that makes me get all protective of Carsten Jancker is the fact that he's often unfairly held up as the prime example of the stodgy football Germany was playing 10 to 15 years ago. Jancker was undoubtedly limited, but there were many other reasons for the football Germany was playing.

It was/is the same with Mario Gomez. People joke about how many chances he wastes, but rarely focus on how many he doesn't waste (59 caps, 25 goals).

[Reed John]

We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland

blameless wrote: In light of him breaking the record last night, a number of publications have done a retrospective on Klose's sixteen world cup goals complete with pictures.

Featuring prominently amongst these pictures is Klose wheeling away to celebrate after bagging his first against Saudi Arabia in 2002:



That's Carsten Jancker sitting on his arse in the back of that shot. Germany have come a hell of a long way in twelve years.

Wikipedia informs me that is Abdullah Sulaiman Zubromawi scratching his balls there and Abdullah Al-Waked doing a "Come at me, bro" pose, but I suspect he's actually just thinking "Well, we're getting hammered here, but I get paid a lot, so I've got that going for me, which is nice."

Notice that Germany and SA are wearing, essentially, the exact same kit just different colors and a different badge. Adidas and Nike have gotten away from that a bit, which is good, but those are nice kits.

[cantagalo]

We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland

Maybe a defeat of this magnitude is what is needed to bring about a complete reformulation of the Brazilian game. But I wouldn't bank on it.

Globo is reporting this morning that the CBF are in favour of Tite as Scolari's successor. Yes, that'll be the Tite who ground his way to the 2012 World Club Championship and whose Corinthians team thrille spectators here by averaging just over a goal a game and achieving a record number of 0-0 draws in a season.

The thing is that Tite may be one of the more credible Brazilian candidates. In Brazil's Serie A, there are at least a dozen Scolaris, all fearful for their jobs, all playing a 4-2-3-1 formation based on physical strength and tactical fouling. Brazilian league games are generally not a pretty sight.

On the playing side, you may have to get used to the fact that this Neymar, Oscar, Bernard generation of players is as good as it's going to get for a while. People ask me who are the up and coming young stars in Brazil.I can name a few hulking (pun intended)centre backs, some holding midfielders and a few full backs but no ball-playing, creative midfielders, no camisa 10, no craques.

Now I'm still fascinated by Brazilian football but last season's Brasileirão was the poorest I can remember in terms of playing quality and entertainment. This year's Copa Libertadores has reached its semi final stage with no Brazilian clubs remaining. Brazilian football is in crisis at both international and club level

[Toro Toro]

We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland

cantagalo wrote: I can name a few hulking (pun intended)centre backs, some holding midfielders and a few full backs but no ball-playing, creative midfielders, no camisa 10, no craques.

[cantagalo]

We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland

Haha. In hindsight he might well have performed better than Oscar but he's been in Europe for what, 3 years now?

No sign of any new Coutinhos, let alone Neymars here.

[Borracho]

We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland

What difference would he have made to anything? He's fairly handy but he's no better than Oscar, and Oscar was crushed along with the rest of them.

They should have picked him in the squad though.

[Southport Zeb]

We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland

Choose the more likely answer to the question "Who are Bernard and Fred?"
A) The names Dudley Moore and Peter Cook almost chose before settling on Derek and Clive.
B) Characters in Thomas the Tank Engine
C) The strike partnership to take you to a World Cup final.

[linus]

We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland

ad hoc wrote: I honestly don't know how Brazil (the country) processes this. Football is totally central to the national identity in a way it is for no other country. The only vaguely close analogy I can get is Canada and ice hockey. And in front of the world, playing at home they have been utterly utterly humiliated. How do people cope with that? Seriously. I have no idea. I've tried to come up with some comparison, but there is none available.

(I know for some people on here the entire nation is made up of boorish wankers, but obviously that's bollocks, and the proportion of boorish wankers in Brazil is just the same as it is in every other country in the world, and the vast majority of people are average, wonderful people who will now be - in a fairly real and non-exaggerated sense -traumatised)

It's good to see a bit of sympathy towards Brazil amid the 30 pages of shadenfreude, this kind of loss for them must be soul crushing.

[G-Man]

We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland

I do hope that the corrupt, fascist fuck Joao Havelange was still sentient at 98 to see what was done to his Brazil last night. Being a sunny optimist, I hope he felt like his whole life was for nothing, and that the last thing to flash before his eyes before he draws his final breath and sheds his final tear is 1-7.

Old man Crosby on the photos, however, clearly is a lovely man, and I feel sad for him.

[anton pulisov]

We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland

Did Maxwell get any minutes on the pitch? He can pass the ball, etc.

And what about the two boys from Atletico Madrid; Miranda and Felipe Luis. 28 and 29 years old, part of a La Liga winning defence, have been a feature of the Atletico defence since before the Europa League victory in 2012. Not in the squad and only 11 caps between them.

Big Phil has a reputation for building solid sides, but when he is picking David Luiz and leaving very competent defenders at home, it becomes clear that such a reputation is not based on reality. In 2002 he was just lucky to have Rivaldo, Ronaldinho and Ronaldo all in the same side, and all on form.

edit: Just checked and Maxwell has only NINE caps for Brazil. NINE. What the hell.

[Sean of the Shed]

We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland

I can't wait to see how vociferous the players and crowd are when they play the Brazilian anthem at the start of the third place play off. I'm hoping for complete silence accompanied by a solitary tumbleweed blowing across the pitch.

[Calvert]

We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland

It's good to see a bit of sympathy towards Brazil amid the 30 pages of shadenfreude, this kind of loss for them must be soul crushing.

It's a football match at the end of the day, Brian.
People will somehow have to struggle through some gits on an Internet forum sniggering.
The Brazilian government's decision to lavish billions on this tournament at the expense of the health and welfare of the poor is the real shame.

[Amor de Cosmos]

We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland

António Pulisão é um gênio wrote: Did Maxwell get any minutes on the pitch? He can pass the ball, etc.

And what about the two boys from Atletico Madrid; Miranda and Felipe Luis. 28 and 29 years old, part of a La Liga winning defence, have been a feature of the Atletico defence since before the Europa League victory in 2012. Not in the squad and only 11 caps between them.

Big Phil has a reputation for building solid sides, but when he is picking David Luiz and leaving very competent defenders at home, it becomes clear that such a reputation is not based on reality. In 2002 he was just lucky to have Rivaldo, Ronaldinho and Ronaldo all in the same side, and all on form.

edit: Just checked and Maxwell has only NINE caps for Brazil. NINE. What the hell.

My French son-in-law couldn't believe Maxwell didn't play. Best man in the PSG back line he reckons.

[Reed John]

We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland

Shedmundo wrote: I can't wait to see how vociferous the players and crowd are when they play the Brazilian anthem at the start of the third place play off. I'm hoping for complete silence accompanied by a solitary tumbleweed blowing across the pitch.

Given that this is Brazil, it will probably be a giant man-eating tumbleweed.

[Borracho]

We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland

Maxwell's solid but nothing out of the ordinary. He would however have been a drastic improvement on the woeful Marcelo.

[linus]

We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland

Calvert wrote:

It's good to see a bit of sympathy towards Brazil amid the 30 pages of shadenfreude, this kind of loss for them must be soul crushing.

It's a football match at the end of the day, Brian.
People will somehow have to struggle through some gits on an Internet forum sniggering.
The Brazilian government's decision to lavish billions on this tournament at the expense of the health and welfare of the poor is the real shame.

To put this loss in perspective, never in the history of sports have so many people been so disappointed by the outcome of a game. No other country in the world identifies with football more than Brazil and the circumstances as world cup hosts with high expectations are exceptional. I can't help but feeling a bit sorry for the losers.

As to the budget, yes the waste is a bit unfortunate, but it's nowhere close to the tragic boondogles of Sochi or Athens. The Athens olympics sucked up nearly 10% of their GDP and added considerably to their crippling debt, mostly spent on useless infrastructure like velodromes or kayak courses, whereas this world cup represents 0.5% of Brazil $2.3 trillion economy, and a larger share of this spending will benefit the country vs. Greece or Sochi.

[Renart]

We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland

Amor de Cosmos wrote:

Did Maxwell get any minutes on the pitch? He can pass the ball, etc.

And what about the two boys from Atletico Madrid; Miranda and Felipe Luis. 28 and 29 years old, part of a La Liga winning defence, have been a feature of the Atletico defence since before the Europa League victory in 2012. Not in the squad and only 11 caps between them.

Big Phil has a reputation for building solid sides, but when he is picking David Luiz and leaving very competent defenders at home, it becomes clear that such a reputation is not based on reality. In 2002 he was just lucky to have Rivaldo, Ronaldinho and Ronaldo all in the same side, and all on form.

edit: Just checked and Maxwell has only NINE caps for Brazil. NINE. What the hell.

My French son-in-law couldn't believe Maxwell didn't play. Best man in the PSG back line he reckons.

I always feel like somebody's watching him.

[Reed John]

We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland

[Incandenza]

We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland

I LOL'ed

[Bruno]

We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland

Ha ha! He's just an average man, with an average life.

[Sean of the Shed]

We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland

Yeah, don't go overboard on the Maxwell jokes.

[Renart]

We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland

I do love that Rockwell song tho.