International Cricket Thread

[Tubby Isaacs]

Janik & Tee Rex: What I meant by this case being unique is that the collusion has actually been revealed (plus the lying to the umpires, which is a new thing). Of course Australia aren't the first side to do ball-tampering, as has been mentioned. But they are the first side of whom there is evidence of having collectively colluded to cheat. So there is no precedent for the ICC to base their sanction on. My argument was about the legal dimensions, not the moral.

Atherton was fined by England for misleading the match referee (Peter Burge).

Burge got Atherton back later in the series, fining him for dissent when he shook his head a bit while walking off out.

[diggedy derek]

Well that escalated quickly

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/...ace-life-ban-c

Surely not. But another 24 hours of this and I might start to feel sorry for Steve Smith.

[Satchmo Distel]

I think India would have played better in this match than Australia did, even before the tampering. Certainly they would have played smarter.

Which means to say that even without the tampering, Australia were not necessarily moving back into the top two or No. 1. That needs to be stressed because I can forsee some future pundit blaming the tampering for Australia failing to get back No. 1, when infact it was still a flawed team, albeit with a great attack.

[Satchmo Distel]

I don't see the basis for a life ban. It's rather tabloidish as a headline, not really sourced from any reality. Smith could choose to walk away, however, given the political opportunism of some of those attacking him.

[ursus arctos]

If Smith really did throw the non-Warner members of the "leadership team" under the bus without the slightest justification (as that piece indicates), CA might well be facing a revolt from the rest of the team.

[San Bernardhinault]

I'd be perfectly fine if CA didn't ban Steve Smith at all, but did give David Warner a life ban.

There's a part of me that wonders how much of this is actually Smith's doing, or whether he's taking the bullet for his team - taking responsibility when he might have had nothing to do with it, and in fact Starc (say) was the instigator.

But I suspect that's just because I like Smith.

[ursus arctos]

Similarly, if this was Mitchell's idea, he's off the list for future family picnics . . .

[Patrick Thistle]

Mrs Thistle initiated a conversation with me about cricket today for the first time ever. She was laughing about the Sky Sports close up slow motion shots of a player putting tape down his trousers.

[Janik]

Well that escalated quickly

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/...ace-life-ban-c

Surely not. But another 24 hours of this and I might start to feel sorry for Steve Smith.

Definitely not. It's the maximum penalty available under their code of conduct, but that doesn't mean it's going to be applied here, or anything close to that. That punishment is available for cases of match fixing, or assaults which would come under the same catch-all charge. If you start using the nuclear option for minor offences, you are heading down the route of 17th Century British justice where looking askance at someone = the gallows.

I suspect CA will ban both for a while longer due to the political pressure to do so. Because, well... But a series tops, and that is a maybe.

I'm feeling reasonably robust in my predictions of punishments to date. Bancroft got exactly what I had suggested, 75% of his match fee and 3 demerit points. Smith got a one match ban, which I didn't predict... but that was actually only a marginal miss as 4 demerit points = 1 test suspension. I had suggested 100% of his match fee (as was imposed) and 3 points, so 1 point off, albeit a crucial one as it triggers the automatic ban.
If I understand correctly, 4 demerit points and 100% of the match fee is the maximum punishment the ICC can impose for ball tampering under it's code. Well, yes, that seems about right; as a case of ball tampering, it would stand at the very top end of the spectrum.

[Satchmo Distel]

If Smith and Starc give CA conflicting versions of the story, whom do CA believe? Ultimately the captain carries the can, unless he can prove no knowledge. I suppose you could study all the footage to see if it can be inferred whether Smith could see what Bancroft was doing.

[ursus arctos]

CA will be extraordinarily negligent if they don't interview everyone who was in the dressing room.

This isn't going to come down to competing accounts with one person on each side.

[Janik]

Actually, that was a question I had, having not watched the footage. Is it just Smith's admission of involvement in the press conference that has damned him? Could he have brazened it out, like others have done previously?

[Satchmo Distel]

Ursus, but CA aren't trained interrogators.

[ursus arctos]

I don't see why they need to be (this isn't rocket science), but the "Head of Integrity" who is on his way to SA is a trained lawyer.

Janik, I think the footage (of which there is certain to be more than what was broadcast), the attempt to deceive the umpires and the still photographs all made this one to hard to brazen out even for an Aussie captain.

[Satchmo Distel]

"the attempt to deceive the umpires" has been portrayed as just Brancroft panicking but surely Smith had a responsibility and role there? What was his involvement in that dialogue?

[ursus arctos]

Do you think he instructed Bancroft to stick the sandpaper down his pants and give them his lens cloth in advance?

He isn't with Bancroft when the umpires question him

[ursus arctos]

Meanwhile, some much needed perspective from one of our own in response to Turnbull's bleating

https://twitter.com/squires_david/status/977884741033590784

[Satchmo Distel]

If Smith really did throw the non-Warner members of the "leadership team" under the bus without the slightest justification (as that piece indicates), CA might well be facing a revolt from the rest of the team.

I've just watched the presser again and Smith actually says "It's a poor reflection on everybody in that dressing room", so effectively he's thrown the whole squad under.

[Janik]

Which might be a reason why he couldn't brazen it out. The rest of the squad made it clear to Smith that any attempt to have Bancroft as the sole fall-guy wasn't going to wash.

[G-Man]

The reaction from Cricket Australia has been very good. The Australian public is rightly angry for many good reasons, but for us outsiders that anger points to a collective integrity among their cricket fans I hadn't previously perceived. And Tim Paine is saying absolutely the right things. There are so many ways they could have got it wrong, but the response has been pitch-perfect. Paradoxically, Australian cricket is coming out of this incident in many ways with a deservedly enhanced reputation.

I don't know whether Paine was coached by PR experts, but he seems sincere and displays the right amount of humility and introspection, not only about the ball tampering but also about other behavioural issues on this tour. He should be Australia's new captain.

Given Cricket Australia's response so far, I expect there to be reasonable sanction on Smith, Bancroft and Warner, with the rest of the team perhaps receiving some kind of admonishment. Lehmann's position must be untenable now.

[Vicarious Thrillseeker]

Which might be a reason why he couldn't brazen it out. The rest of the squad made it clear to Smith that any attempt to have Bancroft as the sole fall-guy wasn't going to wash.

All he had to do then was take full responsibility for the event and take the rap for everyone. I think it reflects badly upon Smith that he tried to throw Bancroft and then the 'leadership team' under the bus rather than take overall responsibility. I think that's actually worse than scuffing up a ball with a bit of wet and dry. I mean, we all know that the Australian Cricket Family cheat - that's a given.

[Ray de Galles]

We all know cricketers from all countries cheat.

[G-Man]

"Why Australia is outraged" It seems a reasonable piece.

[nmrfox]

What a crap weekend to spend most of it travelling and unable to use the internet, seems like I missed some fun and only just catching up with it. Can only hope that that's we'll see of Smith and Warner (especially him) wearing the baggy green, but as others have said above, that's CA or their own personal remit and not the ICC's.

Maybe Warner will be the one ending up at Derbyshire and not Morkel? Could be worse I suppose, could end up at Grace Road (or whatever frightful name they are giving it this year).

[Antepli Ejderha]

We all know cricketers from all countries cheat.

Exactly this. There's a huge overreaction going on now with some trying to take a moral high ground that really doesn't exist.

This should be dealt with by the ICC and not Cricket Australia imho.