International Cricket Thread

[jameswba]

I think there are grounds for that though. The journalists on Agnew's latest lunch-time panel (OK, I know they were all English) were saying how players had told them off the record just how relentless, personal and abusive Warner's sledging was. And there was a piece in the Sydney Morning Herald too, which said 'ask players from any other country which team has the worst, most personal sledgers and they'll say Australia'. It went on to say that this is led by Warner under the sanction of Lehmann.

Nobody sensible is pretending that this isn't a problem with some other countries and players too. Anderson and Stokes are also acknowledged to be obnoxious on the field, and definitely need dealing with. But Australia (are very commonly perceived to) take this to different levels, and to do so in a more co'ordinated way. Anyway, it seems to be rats in a sack now, as the team has apparently turned on Warner, he's out of their social media groups etc. It seems they were all sick to death of him when he was abusing opponents over things like their weight, sexuality and language. What a shame for all that they chose the moment when he got them all implicated in a cheating scandal to finally let him know what they thought.

I think you'll get your wish, as I don't think we'll see him playing for Australia again.

[G-Man]

When it comes to sledging, the big rows (and, usually, the best stories) have almost invariably involved Australia. Though one of the best sledger I've seen was Sangakkara, who'd often be picked up by stump-mics. His sledging was psychological rather than personal though, more of "feeling the pressure, are you" running commentary rather than "yo momma" cracks. Which I think is legit.

Australia, and especially Warner, have had a knack of bringing out the worst in opponents. The idea that mild-mannered Quinton de Kock would take the initiative in going personal against Warner -- which is what Steve Smith claimed and Shane Warne and Adam Gilchrist "assumed" -- is absurd. Warner had apparently insulted de Kock's mother and sister, among other things, in a sustained barrage of sledging.

And very often, former players like Shane Warne have been the enablers by trotting out liners like "banter" being part of the game, that the stuff must stay on the pitch etc.

[tee rex]

Smith and Warner banned for 12 months, Bancroft for 9.

As for coming back, rehabilitation with the public has less to do with the offences than the perception/reputation of the transgressors. Shane Warne has a long list of crimes and misdemeanours, but he's good ol' Warney, so he's hardly persona non grata. Steve Smith might become some sort of respected elder statesman later on, but Warner will be relying on his agent to book him on Celebrity Charity Whatever, where the obnoxious get to show their "human" side.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

Back in time for the World Cup then ...

[Levin]

Is Tim Paine an odd choice for captain? Or is my impression just too coloured by the "diary extracts" on the urnbelieveable truth podcast.

[diggedy derek]

So it was sandpaper all along, and actually, uh, all of them were lying even when they were admitting it? Not a good look.

[diggedy derek]

What I guess explains this re: Smith and perhaps the 12 month ban

(e) misleading public comments regarding the nature, extent and participants of the plan

[Ray de Galles]

What absolute bloody idiots, the bans seem about right.

[Duncan Gardner]

Some wider responsibility needed though. Boff Lehmann should be sacked, the CEO resign, Turnbull grovelling apology would do

[Ray de Galles]

You get the sense that Lehman can't limp on much longer with this happening on his watch, he's either complicit or ignorant. Perhaps they are leaving him to resign at the end of the SA series?

[ursus arctos]

From what is coming out in the Aussie press, CA are viewing this as a chance to get rid of Warner, who seems to have alienated just about everyone. If that's the primary aim, then it serves them to spin it as Lehman being deceived by the evil vice-captain, even if that strains credulity.

[SouthdownRebel]

I think there are grounds for that though. The journalists on Agnew's latest lunch-time panel (OK, I know they were all English) were saying how players had told them off the record just how relentless, personal and abusive Warner's sledging was. And there was a piece in the Sydney Morning Herald too, which said 'ask players from any other country which team has the worst, most personal sledgers and they'll say Australia'. It went on to say that this is led by Warner under the sanction of Lehmann.

Nobody sensible is pretending that this isn't a problem with some other countries and players too. Anderson and Stokes are also acknowledged to be obnoxious on the field, and definitely need dealing with. But Australia (are very commonly perceived to) take this to different levels, and to do so in a more co'ordinated way. Anyway, it seems to be rats in a sack now, as the team has apparently turned on Warner, he's out of their social media groups etc. It seems they were all sick to death of him when he was abusing opponents over things like their weight, sexuality and language. What a shame for all that they chose the moment when he got them all implicated in a cheating scandal to finally let him know what they thought.

I think you'll get your wish, as I don't think we'll see him playing for Australia again.

That's all about one man's behaviour though, it's very different to broad questions about the teams cheating in the past. There's no evidence that I'm aware of that similar attempts at ball tampering occurred during the Ashes so for the BBC to rush their senior man to an airport to thrust a microphone in Lehman's face smacks of a desperate attempt to make this about England.

Sure, there's cause for those questions to be asked but not in that way and not by the BBC. As others have pointed out, the behaviour of English cricketers in the last year is such that one might, just possibly, accuse the BBC of being a dark-coloured pot.

[Patrick Thistle]

Mrs Thistle's verdict is she's surprised the bans aren't longer. My hope this may spark an interest in cricket seems to have been misjudged as it was more just her absolute hatred of cheating that piqued her interest.

[Satchmo Distel]

Cricinfo has an article of Twitter comments saying the ban is too harsh, but the Tweeters (Warne, Vaughan, Tino Best (!)) seem to assume the penalty was for the tampering when the charges actually make clear that it was for the cover-up, especially Smith and Warner prompting Bancroft to lie to the umpires and then Smith and Bancroft lying in the press conference.

Having said that, I'd have gone for 6-8 months. Missing an entire domestic season can be a career killer, although I suppose the players could pitch up at an overseas franchise.

Warner's obvious future is T20. No Tests or 50 over international future IMHO. The press release significantly implied that the opinion of other players will matter, and Warner is a goner there (whereas many of the T20 players were not in the Test team).

Smith will I think come back with a determination to get back his No. 1 batsman ranking, and take the 60+ average even higher, but it will dent his chances of breaking career aggregate records (Tendulkar etc). But it will be a huge task for him to be remembered primarily as a batsman now. Closest parallels might be Douglas Jardine or Hansie Cronje, albeit different circumstances and eras; a lot more damaged than Atherton obviously despite the parallels (Atherton is less bad because he did not delegate the tampering to a younger player then pressure him to lie to officials, but his treatment also seems lenient now when set beside Smith's).

[jameswba]

That's all about one man's behaviour though, it's very different to broad questions about the teams cheating in the past. There's no evidence that I'm aware of that similar attempts at ball tampering occurred during the Ashes so for the BBC to rush their senior man to an airport to thrust a microphone in Lehman's face smacks of a desperate attempt to make this about England.

Sure, there's cause for those questions to be asked but not in that way and not by the BBC. As others have pointed out, the behaviour of English cricketers in the last year is such that one might, just possibly, accuse the BBC of being a dark-coloured pot.

Yes, I should have made clear I was replying to Ad Hoc there, ie saying there were grounds for having an aversion to Warner beyond just 'personal bias'. I agree with your points there about the ball-tampering and the response of the BBC.

As for sledging, it seems to be the perception that Australia have done it in quite a co'ordinated way, more so and more persistently than the other teams. Yes, Warner tends to be the main 'attack dog', but his actions have been sanctioned by the team and the set-up.

[SouthdownRebel]

Ah, fair enough, thanks for clarifying.

[SouthdownRebel]

Cricinfo has an article of Twitter comments saying the ban is too harsh, but the Tweeters (Warne, Vaughan, Tino Best (!)) seem to assume the penalty was for the tampering when the charges actually make clear that it was for the cover-up, especially Smith and Warner prompting Bancroft to lie to the umpires and then Smith and Bancroft lying in the press conference.

Having said that, I'd have gone for 6-8 months. Missing an entire domestic season can be a career killer, although I suppose the players could pitch up at an overseas franchise.

Cricinfo's on-site survey has 52% saying the punishments were fair and 24% each for too harsh/lenient, so this would suggest they got it about right. What I've not seen mentioned here is that Bancroft and, more pertinently, Smith have an additional 12 month captaincy ban on top of the playing ban and that Warner has a life-ban from captaincy.

You're right that T20 is the obvious route, for Warner especially, except that BCCI has already announced their exclusion from the next IPL.

[Antepli Ejderha]

Smith and Warner banned for 12 months, Bancroft for 9.

Is this from all cricket?

[SouthdownRebel]

International and first-class, they're allowed to play club cricket. Whether this extends to all cricket outside CA's jurisdiction I'm not sure.

[Vicarious Thrillseeker]

International and first-class, they're allowed to play club cricket. Whether this extends to all cricket outside CA's jurisdiction I'm not sure.

Bancroft is still eligible to play for Somerset, though no decision has yet been made whether to cancel the contract. Rumours are that some counties are thinking of picking up Smith for this season.

[SouthdownRebel]

It would generate terrible PR for any that did, which convinces me that the counties will be falling over each other to do so

[G-Man]

12 months is pretty harsh, I think. But next time CA is occupying the moral high ground, I don't imagine there'll be much grounds for telling them to come off it.

I wonder how much this will curb attempts at ball-tampering. Surely the next guy to be caught will have to be punished with similar decisiveness by his national association.

[ursus arctos]

The Times is reporting that the ECB is considering its own ban.

[Satchmo Distel]

Does the ECB have the legal power to ban someone for an offence that was not in an ECB sanctioned event?

[ursus arctos]

That may well be a subject on which they are getting advice, but I would expect that it could be made to fit a general rule against bringing the game into disrepute.

I don’t remember if they banned any of those involved in the ICL shenanigans