F1, WRC, motorsport 2021 - making it up as we go along

[Flynnie]

I don't care about either driver but I am in Hamilton's camp here. They decided to manufacture a last lap race where one guy is a sitting duck and the guy trying to pass can just attack knowing that if Hamilton defends too aggressively they both go off and he wins anyway.

As for lap 1,Verstappen doesn't try and pass fairly. He just fires into the corner like a dagger and basically blocks the road. If Hamilton turns into corner as normal he would hit him. This has become Verstappen's way of passing and if he does it, people should be allowed to avoid him and drive off the track around him.

If he didn’t have to give the place back that would be one thing, but jamming the accelerator when Verstappen is going through the second half of a very tight* chicane is dodge.

*too tight, as a long time wannabe Tilke

[Third rate Leszno]

If he didn’t have to give the place back that would be one thing, but jamming the accelerator when Verstappen is going through the second half of a very tight* chicane is dodge.

*too tight, as a long time wannabe Tilke

I think the suggestion was that Hamilton backed off a bit and allowed Max to close back up while he waited to see if he'd have to give the place back, so any immediate gain was mitigated.

Although I wanted Hamilton to win, I wanted him to do it on track so I'll be even more dissatisfied if one of the Merc protests is successful.

[jason voorhees]

Mercedes lodged the protest.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...sults/6878175/

https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sp...le-2021-12-12/

https://www.planetf1.com/news/merced...sts-abu-dhabi/

[longeared]

As a legacy fan of the sport you get used to elements of contrivance and show and baffling decisions that always seem to have the effect of making the championship closer. Hamilton's last corner win in 2008 was indirectly caused by a weird stewarding decision penalising him for nothing much in Belgium several races earlier that dropped him down the classification there. It's just that now the product is shinier and glossier (it genuinely feels like 4k Ultra HD versus black and white compared to five years ago) and we see more of the base workings and the feeling that looking good on the telly is now more of a priority than the actual racing and fairness, for example the thing we had a couple of races back where they revealed a stewards decision during the Horner / Wolff press conference. Though the safety car and the removal of lapped cars would likely have happened in a different manner had the incident occurred 10 laps earlier and that leaves a bit of a sour taste.

Mercedes have protested but it's difficult to see this going anywhere, the FIA are not obviously going to penalise their own people though I imagine they might clarify and amend some rules going forward. Red Bull did nothing wrong in the closing stages and it's not their fault Masi and the stewards did what they did. At least Verstappen made a clean overtake on this occasion.

[Baptiste]

Under the regulations I think Masi had three choices:

Red Flag
Let all lapped cars overtake
Let none of them overtake

and even in the latter two the safety car has to do another lap.

But he has made up a new scenario.

I think the rule should be any safety car incident in the last 10 laps is a red flag restart.

[jason voorhees]

I think the rule should be any safety car incident in the last 10 laps is a red flag restart.

That's what Nascar did about 15 years ago to avoid races finishing under caution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green%...checker_finish

[jason voorhees]

More Protest Coverage:

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...Q5S70O1cY.html

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12...EzZQy64mxPKTRA

[Incandenza]

With a red flag restart it likely would have had the same outcome because of the tires, unless one of the cars further back influenced the race between the two.

[hobbes]

You're allowed to change tyres under a red flag.

[Incandenza]

How could I forget that after last week? !

[Incandenza]

Vettel asks about the overtaking championship: https://streamable.com/mqhp3z

[Third rate Leszno]

The other thing that would have made this more transparent would be to have a rule that allows you to add laps on for every one run behind a safety car - that way Merc would've been more likely to pit Lewis and risk ceding track position as they'd have known there'd be a few laps of racing still to come.

Whatever the outcome of this, you'd expect pressure from teams and media to clarify some of the rules ahead of next season.

[jason voorhees]

We need to start a GoJellybeanMe fund to get 1,000,000 jellybeans to Seb.

[Incandenza]

We need to start a GoJellybeanMe fund to get 1,000,000 jellybeans to Seb.

Only if it's carbon neutral.

[Incandenza]

Decision on Mercedes appeal to the safety car procedure in 10 minutes. Whatever the decision is it's going to be appealed anyway.

[jason voorhees]

First protest dismissed, the bit about passing on a safety car
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/st...y-car/6878722/

[diggedy derek]

Max will be champion, the rest is just horse trading surely

[Snake Plissken]

The other thing that would have made this more transparent would be to have a rule that allows you to add laps on for every one run behind a safety car

Doesn't work because cars would need refuelling.

[jason voorhees]

Second protest dismissed, or "not upheld."

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/me...rdict/6878818/

[Incandenza]

https://twitter.com/ChrisMedlandF1/status/1470107860411781121?s=20

[longeared]

That feels like the right decision for the wrong reasons because there are provisions within the rules to retcon a result from a previous lap in certain circumstances - eg Brazil 2003.

Having read the stewards decision I enjoyed the bit "Red Bull argued that "any" does not mean "all"" in terms of allowing any lapped cars to pass the safety car. That's the sort of woolly wording that no-one notices until it becomes relevant in a real world situation and it's the sort of thing that will probably be clarified before next season.

[Incandenza]

Having read the stewards decision I enjoyed the bit "Red Bull argued that "any" does not mean "all"" in terms of allowing any lapped cars to pass the safety car. That's the sort of woolly wording that no-one notices until it becomes relevant in a real world situation and it's the sort of thing that will probably be clarified before next season.

I mean, in context I think any neutral person would read the "any" to have the same effect as "all": "If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message "LAPPED CARS MAY NOW OVERTAKE" has been sent to all Competitors via the official messaging system, any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car."

But you can see where avoiding the certainty of "all" is something that the administrators would want.

[multipleman78]

What a way to win it. Arguing that any doesn't mean all. It certainly doesn't mean some or the ones who are getting in the way of a climax for television. Any means all in this context and if the roles were reversed they would find that arguement to be a load of bollocks, which it is.

The rules also state that once these lapped cars are through, the safety car comes in the following lap not the same lap. The head steward or whatever his title is has effectively put Verstappen in the box seat and left Hamilton a sitting duck.

However, it may be argued that once all the bullshit was complete, could Hamilton have defended that corner better? Is that a normal passing point and he left a massive gap on the inside, which he must know would be filled by a Red Bull who is happy for a crash that ends their races.

What are the rules for passing behind the safety car? He did just inch ahead but it was clearly not an impact on the result. Have other drivers been penalised for that inch? If so, then the same rules should apply.

[multipleman78]

Also, during the final battle, they are being followed closely by a lapped McLaren. That was Riccardo. Because he was behind Verstappen he wasn't allowed to unlap himself which fucked him over for trying to pass Vettel and Co.

He could have used Verstappen getting them blue flagged to sneak past or challenge them if he was allowed to unlap along with them but he was deemed expendable.

[Kevin S]

Have we also mentioned how this bizarre unprecedented decision prevented Carlos Sainz from having a fair shot at the win or second?