The Most Exiting (sic) League in the World: Div 2, 2019-20

[statto99]

Absolutely. I started supporting Leeds some time in 1972/3. If you include that season and this one we've spent 24 in the top flight and 24 outside it.

I think it was when we were in League One when I came to the belief that we are effectively a tier two club who sometimes get a decent run at the top level before losing it and taking a decade (or two) to regroup. It normally takes a single minded, dour supremo with ideas that will eventually be widely adopted a few years later to sort us out and then drag us bodily by the lapels until we finally tumble over the line into the top division, whereupon we have an unnerving habit of winning it before the supremo jacks it in and we enter a long, slow, barely perceptible spiral of decline until one day we can no longer escape gravity and we're back at our natural level again. I'm not entirely certain we're not perning in one of WB Yeats's gyres.

Revie. Wilkinson. (Hopefully) Bielsa. The club basically can never reach the top division until The Coming Of The Supremo.

[statto99]

Thought more about this. The Downfall part has to be triggered by The Scandal. In 1975 there was the riot after the Paris European Cup final and the subsequent ban from Europe for several years. Last time around take your pick from Bowyer/Woodgate and Ridsdale/Goldfish. Or perhaps they were basically a package.

[danielmak]

Fulham are certainly the least likely to go up automatically but won 2-0 and looked in good shape throughout the match.

Good to see Leeds got an extra day. I agree that at some point they had some extra rest (although hard to say with this re-start scheduling) but that 48 hours was certainly not applied equally in recent weeks as far as I can tell. They will have less time after that game against Derby but one day won't really matter at that point. If they can beat Swansea away (currently 1 point out of the playoff spots), I'd think Leeds should be set. But I can see why statto is freaked out. If I remember correctly, last year was the first time that a championship side in first place at Christmas didn't hold onto an automatic spot (and then they didn't even get to Wembley).

[Ray de Galles]

Thought more about this. The Downfall part has to be triggered by The Scandal. In 1975 there was the riot after the Paris European Cup final and the subsequent ban from Europe for several years. Last time around take your pick from Bowyer/Woodgate and Ridsdale/Goldfish. Or perhaps they were basically a package.

Much as I have severed my ties with them, I still press Cardiff City's claims as the catalyst for the last downfall.

[statto99]

Much as I have severed my ties with them, I still press Cardiff City's claims as the catalyst for the last downfall.

They were certainly in the mix.

[Billy Casper]

Thought more about this. The Downfall part has to be triggered by The Scandal. In 1975 there was the riot after the Paris European Cup final and the subsequent ban from Europe for several years. Last time around take your pick from Bowyer/Woodgate and Ridsdale/Goldfish. Or perhaps they were basically a package.

Can I just add to the original Downfall, Don Revie leaving England for UAE and money. Obviously he wasn't at Leeds at the time but he was still considered 'Leeds' if you know what I mean.

[statto99]

But I can see why statto is freaked out. If I remember correctly, last year was the first time that a championship side in first place at Christmas didn't hold onto an automatic spot (and then they didn't even get to Wembley).

Oh, yes. Something which plenty of non-Leeds fans took great delight in, which is extra lovely when you're crushed. Also the first team to have a two - nil lead in a playoff semi and not make it to the final. And a bunch of other "first time it's ever happened!"s.

[statto99]

Can I just add to the original Downfall, Don Revie leaving England for UAE and money. Obviously he wasn't at Leeds at the time but he was still considered 'Leeds' if you know what I mean.

Well, I mean, it happened. Not sure it had any more effect on us at the time, though, than, say, Bobby Robson leaving England for PSV on the eve of a tournament had on Ipswich.

[statto99]

And, of course on this very sad morning, RIP Jack Charlton. I was just a bit too young to see him play in the flesh. It goes without saying he was an absolute tower for Leeds for many of our most successful years. I'm sure Republic of Ireland fans in particular will miss him greatly, too. What a few weeks - Norman, Trevor and now Big Jack. Would have been wonderful if they could have seen us make it up, if we do.

[statto99]

Oh, yes. Something which plenty of non-Leeds fans took great delight in, which is extra lovely when you're crushed.

I think I should add that quite a few others were very supportive.

[Billy Casper]

Well, I mean, it happened. Not sure it had any more effect on us at the time, though, than, say, Bobby Robson leaving England for PSV on the eve of a tournament had on Ipswich.

I think that Revie is more closely associated with Leeds than Robson is with Ipswich though. Add in a bit of Yorkshire and tight with money into the mix and you've got yourself a nicely packaged easy to understand scandal. Not that it directly involved Leeds though, like you said.

Charlton had a full football life after Leeds didn't he. I'd forgotten about him managing Boro and Wednesday successfully.

[statto99]

I think that Revie is more closely associated with Leeds than Robson is with Ipswich though. Add in a bit of Yorkshire and tight with money into the mix...

Obviously, Revie for all his likely shortcomings is something of a saint round Elland Road way. I should probably also mention he got his 1956 FA Cup winners' medal in the same team as my uncle, Bill Leivers, who inherited Don's Manchester City club house when he left. So, for me, there's a little bit of extra positive sentiment towards Revie than perhaps even for most Leeds fans.

Born in Middlesbrough, Revie was technically "Yorkshire", though I worked for many years with a colleague from there and she, at least, seemed to identify more strongly with Sunderland and Newcastle than Sheffield and Leeds. I'm from 40 miles north of Bristol, but all our television was about Birmingham (55 miles away), Coventry and Wolverhampton, so I never really felt very "West Country". Revie's mum died when he was a kid and his dad couldn't always find work, so I think financial security was always a big factor for him.

Not *quite* sure what the "tight with money" is doing there? Don was? Yorkshire people are? There's a handy cliche that Yorkshire people are? I'm going to go for the last one. Helps with headlines for the press at the time, I guess, but I don't think it would add anything to the feelings at Leeds United FC at that time. Struggling to see how it could, unless they were all dismayed at Don earning lots of money? Probably best if I don't overthink it <genuine self-mocking smiley>.

[statto99]

Charlton had a full football life after Leeds didn't he. I'd forgotten about him managing Boro and Wednesday successfully.

He certainly did, didn't he? Shamefully, I'd forgotten he managed Wednesday, but somehow remembered he managed Middlesbrough (and Bobby, Preston). Thoughts also, then, with fans who remember Jack fondly from those clubs.

[Billy Casper]

Yeah sorry, I meant Yorkshire people have a tendency to be considered tight with money - short arms and deep pockets is the saying I think.

Anyway back on topic, I genuinely afraid you could score double figures against us if you click. We're just not very good this season. I would accept finishing second bottom at this point, just so I can continue to say I've never seen us finish bottom.

[Crystal Staples]

Also the first team to have a two - nil lead in a playoff semi and not make it to the final.

Blackpool in 1996?

[statto99]

Anyway back on topic, I genuinely afraid you could score double figures against us if you click. We're just not very good this season. I would accept finishing second bottom at this point, just so I can continue to say I've never seen us finish bottom.

That made me smile, Billy!

It is a blessing in some ways, but also occasionally a slightly embarrassing curse, that Bielsa's philosophy is that you play with exactly the same forward-looking intensity for 90 minutes regardless of what the actual match state is. I think we will still need the points when we play you. If we manage to get the first goal (which is our Achilles heel if we don't) I apologise in advance for any score-up-running that may occur.

[statto99]

Blackpool in 1996?

Really? Apologise if I'm a bit askew there then. Perhaps it was first time ever in the Championship.

[statto99]

Well done to cantagalo and the Brentford posse.

Your occasional reminder that a team cannot win its final 10 games in the Championship because it has never been done and is ludicrously unlikely therefore everyone should stop mithering about it because it simply can't happen.

[pebblethefish]

To be honest, we're just doing it to annoy you... (smiley face)

[statto99]

And you are doing it very, very successfully. Billy Casper might be more annoyed about it than me, though.

[statto99]

Well, that was an unexpected Brucie Bonus. I think if, at the start of the season (or one or two points within it) you'd have offered me being top with a game in hand and everyone else to play only three more I would have had to have taken that.

[Simon G]

Obviously, Revie for all his likely shortcomings is something of a saint round Elland Road way. I should probably also mention he got his 1956 FA Cup winners' medal in the same team as my uncle, Bill Leivers, who inherited Don's Manchester City club house when he left. So, for me, there's a little bit of extra positive sentiment towards Revie than perhaps even for most Leeds fans.

Born in Middlesbrough, Revie was technically "Yorkshire", though I worked for many years with a colleague from there and she, at least, seemed to identify more strongly with Sunderland and Newcastle than Sheffield and Leeds. I'm from 40 miles north of Bristol, but all our television was about Birmingham (55 miles away), Coventry and Wolverhampton, so I never really felt very "West Country". Revie's mum died when he was a kid and his dad couldn't always find work, so I think financial security was always a big factor for him.

Not *quite* sure what the "tight with money" is doing there? Don was? Yorkshire people are? There's a handy cliche that Yorkshire people are? I'm going to go for the last one. Helps with headlines for the press at the time, I guess, but I don't think it would add anything to the feelings at Leeds United FC at that time. Struggling to see how it could, unless they were all dismayed at Don earning lots of money? Probably best if I don't overthink it <genuine self-mocking smiley>.

Another North Gloucestershire gentleman on here?

I know a lot of Leeds fans in Cheltenham, including my aunt. They seem a lot like Spurs in the Gloucestershire area in that they garner a lot of support despite the lack of success, when compared to to Liverpool or Man Utd for example.

[Billy Casper]

I wonder if Leeds fans around the country are all in certain age ranges? Say, mid 50s to mid 60s for supporters who started watching football in the Revie era, and late 30s/ early 40s for the Wilkinson era. I don't imagine they've picked up many fans from other time periods.

That's us done anyway. Our last three matches are against Leeds, Forest and Brentford. It's been coming all season and is fully deserved.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Christ we were bad today. Man for man the worst performance of the season. This closed door period has been rubbish. The lack of a crowd hurts us more than most teams. Normally the fans are physically close to the players, it intimidates the oppo and inspires the team, especially the youngsters.

Another win would be nice as we play out the string, but if it doesn't happen it's no time for pitchforks and torches. The talent is there, we just need the patience to let it blossom.

[statto99]

Another North Gloucestershire gentleman on here?

I know a lot of Leeds fans in Cheltenham, including my aunt. They seem a lot like Spurs in the Gloucestershire area in that they garner a lot of support despite the lack of success, when compared to to Liverpool or Man Utd for example.

That is indeed where I'm from, Simon, but not Cheltenham, although I know it well and used to do drama things there in my youth. I don't remember actually knowing any other Leeds fans, even at school. In fact, I think there was hardly any team with more than one fan amongst my lot. Loads of variety. Probably small clusters of Liverpool as they were doing especially well at the time.

My reasons for supporting Leeds are more to do with the family connection to Mr Revie. By rights I should be a fully fledged Manchester City supporter because of my uncle, but somehow that didn't quite happen. I even supported Wolves when we went to their League Cup final against City in 1974.