Renée Zellweger's face

[WOM]

Renée Zellweger's face

La Lanterne Rouge wrote:

Yes, and my 'cute' remark notwithstanding, it's not voyeurism either. I'm genuinely curious as to why she felt the need to [strike]get plastic surgery [/strike]live a healthier, happier life. What did she think 'we' thought of her? What did she think of herself?

Perhaps it's nothing to do with us.

Perhaps we can assume that she's intelligent and capable of making decisions, and she decided this is what she wanted.

Perhaps. But her denial of the patently obvious tells me otherwise.

[Lucia Lanigan]

Renée Zellweger's face

It's showbiz. Everything these people say in public is bollocks. If they're doing a role where they have to gain weight, they'll say it was amazing to gain weight. If they're playing Ghandi they'll say it was amazing to lose weight. They're not going to tell you their inner feelings in a handy soundbite, because why would they?

[laverte]

Renée Zellweger's face

Sniffing out sexist double standards is an endless pursuit, but there's an obvious one here. When Ian Hislop makes fun of Wayne Rooney on tv, or when there's a thread on this forum complaining about hipsters, nobody says "So much for the brotherhood, eh!" Women should have the freedom to talk about each other's appearances in the same (often excessive) language that men use to debate which footballers they do and do not like, without having to worry about letting down the team.

Gender is not the only political identity inscribed on women's bodies. They are also markers of class, age and race. The attacks on Tulisa (and Jordan, and the people from Towie) seem largely class-based. But when women argue out their differences among themselves, they are being mean and bitchy. I wonder, in fact, if the problem might really be the unladylikeness of women expressing strong opinions.

[WOM]

Renée Zellweger's face

Why wouldn't you just stay silent then? But to issue a flaccid non-denial denial seems...odd.

[WOM]

Renée Zellweger's face

laverte wrote: I wonder, in fact, if the problem might really be the unladylikeness of women expressing strong opinions.

Oh, please tell me you didn't....

[Lucia Lanigan]

Renée Zellweger's face

Jesus, "why don't you just say silent"?! That'd really improve a conversation about gender, beauty standards, the media &c. wouldn't it. Back to WOM theorising about the inner life of someone he doesn't know, based on 1,000-steps-removed PR.

[Stumpy Pepys]

Renée Zellweger's face

laverte wrote: When Ian Hislop makes fun of Wayne Rooney on tv, or when there's a thread on this forum complaining about hipsters, nobody says "So much for the brotherhood, eh!"

Where are these places where men convene to discuss the appearance of other men? Which magazines are you referring to?

Men are guilty of many unpleasant things, but I'm not sure that's one of them.

[Lucia Lanigan]

Renée Zellweger's face

Anyway, a lot of slightly defensive looking “not all men”ing from my brothers in gender upthread. Yeah, women judge men on appearance too, some men have plastic surgery disasters, etc. But what does any of that tell you?

I mean, I could respond to laverte’s earlier post by pointing out that men get bombarded with body horror stuff on Facebook too. But to be honest that’s about the only place I can think of where I see it day to day, and I mostly notice it because it’s so unusual. Whereas my daily commute alone gives me a taste of what women live with all the time, and it – mixed metaphorically – bombs that out of the water.

All the buses I saw this morning had a 12-foot photoshop-slimmed woman in lingerie on the side (you’d never guess the ad was for Scottish folded pizza vendors Calzedonia). On my way home I’ll pop into the supermarket and – even ignoring the nagging Weight Watcher type of branding with pics of women holding out their skirt waistlines and all that – be faced, while queuing, with a rack of magazines devoted entirely to scrutinising women’s bodies and public-property relationships using paparazzi shots. I can’t imagine what it’s like to be targeted by so much crap like that all your life.

The reason they, and the Mail and the Sun and whatever else, sell the big numbers, is simply that they’ll run anything that catches your eye. If you’re used to considering the details of your appearance, anything that does the same is likely to catch your eye. As MsD suggests, you can’t assume women want or buy into it any more than Sun readers really think women should get their tits out on request.

I often think that being a woman is already a bit like being famous in some respects, though, and a lot of this must feed into it. People who don’t know you feel entitled to talk to you (this almost never happens to me or other men I know) and can be quick to feel butthurt and wander what your attitude problem is if you’re not receptive. It’s not as stark or sinister as them all being chat-up merchants; in fact I doubt most of them know why they do it except that it’s a thing they just do, but it must be jarring and draining.

Erm, what was the question again? ( I haven’t seen RZ in any films so I don’t really remember what she looked like or care tbh.)

[WOM]

Renée Zellweger's face

Lucia Lanigan wrote: Jesus, "why don't you just say silent"?! That'd really improve a conversation about gender, beauty standards, the media &c. wouldn't it. Back to WOM theorising about the inner life of someone he doesn't know, based on 1,000-steps-removed PR.

That was in response to your "why would they...", not to laverte's post. If you don't want to comment on your face, don't issue a comment. Don't issue a non-denial denial.

[Lucia Lanigan]

Renée Zellweger's face

In that case: what on earth are you talking about? What do you think I've "denied"?

[Reed John]

Renée Zellweger's face

La Lanterne Rouge wrote:

Yes, and my 'cute' remark notwithstanding, it's not voyeurism either. I'm genuinely curious as to why she felt the need to [strike]get plastic surgery [/strike]live a healthier, happier life. What did she think 'we' thought of her? What did she think of herself?

Perhaps it's nothing to do with us.

Perhaps we can assume that she's intelligent and capable of making decisions, and she decided this is what she wanted.

I find it interesting as a film-watcher who is somewhat interested in how movies get made, not as somebody terribly interested in other people's business or celebrities per se. If she were famous for being on reality TV, for example, I wouldn't spend a second thinking about this at all.

[WOM]

Renée Zellweger's face

Lucia Lanigan wrote: They're not going to tell you their inner feelings in a handy soundbite, because why would they?

You said the above, so I said "then don't say anything at all", meaning RZ...not you. IMHO, she had two or three options: 1) Make some confident statement about her wonderful new look, 2) Say nothing at all or 3) Make some half-assed non-denial of the surgery and chalk it up to fresh air and easy living.

Again, IMHO, 3 was the worst possible option, which causes me to wonder why she chose it.

You've not denied anything, as far as I know...

[Jah Womble]

Renée Zellweger's face

I kind of understood WOM's comment - mainly because he'd already made it upthread. As far as I can see, he doesn't get why RZ would make a hitherto-unprompted public statement to the contrary about her cosmetic surgery if she doesn't need to. I don't think that constitutes someone not minding his own business so much as it's just curiosity about a public figure.

The attacks on Tulisa (and Jordan, and the people from Towie) seem largely class-based.

In some cases, it's also down to a perceived lack of talent and in others, to some of these people appearing (publicly, at least) to be somewhat unpleasant in nature.

[Lucia Lanigan]

Renée Zellweger's face

WOM wrote:

They're not going to tell you their inner feelings in a handy soundbite, because why would they?

You said the above, so I said "then don't say anything at all", meaning RZ...not you. IMHO, she had two or three options: 1) Make some confident statement about her wonderful new look, 2) Say nothing at all or 3) Make some half-assed non-denial of the surgery and chalk it up to fresh air and easy living.

Again, IMHO, 3 was the worst possible option, which causes me to wonder why she chose it.

You've not denied anything, as far as I know...

Oh, got you! Well I guess she/her team has to say something cause they know the press/internet will be full of speculation innit. I can't see how any of those options would give us an insight into her thinking though, realistically.

For the record, I do deny that thing about the goat, if anyone's still speculating about that. It was one time. Not even one time, because it didn't happen, right? Feels good to clear that one up at last.

[Bored Of Education]

Renée Zellweger's face

Jah Womble wrote:

It does make you realise a little, for anybody in the public eye this stuff is so omnipresent it must be suffocating if you start to take notice of it. To be fair to Ms Zellwegger in that context, there would be myriad articles (like that last-noted above, I don't doubt) screaming about her temerity to have wrinkles or saggy bits, had she permitted herself any of those instead of taking the opposite path, which is an equally sad state of affairs.

I'll admit I've not seen the Bridget Jones films (they're not really for me), but wasn't having 'wrinkles or saggy bits' something that was supposedly celebrated by the character? If so, that suggests there'd be an obvious flaw in any crappy tabloid assassination of that nature about Renée Zellweger.

Didn't Zellweger famously put on a lot of weight for the Bridget Jones character?

Women journalists on such rags as the Mail, Heat, etc are openly vile towards other women but I don't really see that that is any sign that women en masse are as bad, indeed worse, than men. These magazines are still owned by men, serving a patriarchal market and they employ the sort of women who can be as judgemental as men can be such as Liz Jones.

I have had a couple of looks at the Chrissie Hynde thread and I still can't see what is objectifying or chauvinistic about it. Someone compared Blondie and The Pretenders in a context where Debbie Harry herself grouped many disparate female musicians together and, perhaps, some people said they fancied Chrissie Hynde. In a message board where Linda Bellingham's tits are evaluated, that is hardly the priority target if a target at all.

Zellweger's surgery is indeed top notch. It is just that everyone knew what she looked like before which is the give away. I thought that Warne was Rhys Ifans.

[Bored Of Education]

Renée Zellweger's face

Jah Womble wrote:

The attacks on Tulisa (and Jordan, and the people from Towie) seem largely class-based.

In some cases, it's also down to a perceived lack of talent and in others, to some of these people appearing (publicly, at least) to be somewhat unpleasant in nature.

I don't think this is the case with Tulisa. Although there is was the vague drug allegation, she has done nothing - certainly compared to, say, Cheryl Cole's racism - to warrant any accusations of unpleasantness.

I don't mind Jordan but I can see that the lack of talent accusation could be levelled at her. Mind you, the sort of 'journalists' doing the attacking are glass-house residents in possession of stones.

[WOM]

Renée Zellweger's face

Bored of Education wrote: Zellweger's surgery is indeed top notch.

Sure...if she's entering witness protection. But it's not the face that got her onto my Friends^TM-style freebie list (laminated).

[Come along, Min]

Renée Zellweger's face

Bored of Education wrote:

I don't think this is the case with Tulisa. Although there is was the vague drug allegation, she has done nothing - certainly compared to, say, Cheryl Cole's racism - to warrant any accusations of unpleasantness.

I seem to remember an admission of nicking handbags in a Sunday Times interview a few years ago and the vague drug allegations were a little more substantial. Maybe nothing more than idiotically making herself sound all gangstery but hardly X-Factor role-model mentor behaviour

[MsD]

Renée Zellweger's face

She's not nicking bags any more, is she?

It's probably something they use against her, yes. Tabloid journalists moralising about drug-taking is obviously hypocritical but they can get away with moralising about theft, I guess.

[Vulgarian Visigoth]

Renée Zellweger's face

laverte wrote: I wonder, in fact, if the problem might really be the unladylikeness of women expressing strong opinions.

Yes, touché, that's just what it is. Absolutely nothing to do with the troubling existence of a hideous industry commited to acting as a beauty Stasi and stirrring women's lowest instincts. (If I'm allowed to suggest that women may also have low instincts)

[Duncan Gardner]

Renée Zellweger's face

Zellweger's parents were big fans of the Small Faces and named their daughter after a song on the evocative Ogden's Nut Gone Flake album. Given the very specific east London setting for the story they may have been unaware that it was about a dockland good-time girl.

[Come along, Min]

Renée Zellweger's face

MsD wrote: She's not nicking bags any more, is she?

Yes that's unlikely.

Comment made as a point of order relating to Bored Of Education's comparison with Cole.

It's probably something they use against her, yes. Tabloid journalists moralising about drug-taking is obviously hypocritical but they can get away with moralising about theft, I guess.

I wish I could get hold of the original Times article, I guess it was an X-Factor publicity thing. Cowell encouraged like. For what reason I dunno. He seems like a no such thing as bad publicity sort of fellow.

[MsD]

Renée Zellweger's face

FWIW I doubt Cheryl ex Cole is actually racist (and can't imagine her using the word "piccaninny") but I'm sure she can be as unpleasant as anyone else who lashes out when they lose their temper.

The jury threw out the "racist" allegations, anyway, so calling her a racist is possibly libellous.

[Jah Womble]

Renée Zellweger's face

I was under the impression she'd called the girl a 'black b*tch' or similar, but it was at least ten years ago, so I'm blessed if I can remember. She certainly gave her a whopper of a black eye - over some lollipops, was it? Nice.

[Borracho]

Renée Zellweger's face

She called her a "jigaboo" and a "fucking black bitch".

Perhaps, like Luis Suarez, she was simply racially abusing in a non-racist way.