Which movies had the biggest real-world consequences?

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

The story isn’t about all if Austria. It’s about one family. One woman in particular.

This “every story has to be about the struggle or it’s propaganda” bullshit is getting tedious.

Indeed. The main purpose of the sound of music is to make Maria von trapp seem like julie andrews, and not Joe Jackson, or any other monstrous abusive, soul crushing show business gargoyle.

It's also extremely misleading on the true nature of nuns.

[Hot Pepsi]

Are you saying Maria Von Trapp was a soul-crushing showbusiness gargoyle? That's a bold claim.

Nuns are like any subculture. There's a broad variety. There is no "true nature of nuns." That's just a prejudice.

[Patrick Thistle]

Indeed. The main purpose of the sound of music is to make Maria von trapp seem like julie andrews, and not Joe Jackson, or any other monstrous abusive, soul crushing show business gargoyle.

It's also extremely misleading on the true nature of nuns.

This has to be my favourite TAB post ever.

[Lang Spoon]

My Latin American politics lecturer in Uni knew gun-running marxist Scottish nuns in 70s central America, but the heady days of liberation theology crazed weegie penguins probably got crushed with the dead hand of JPII.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Marxist nuns in central america, had considerably more to fear from US backed paramilitaries than John Paul II if I remember correctly. Even typing the words Marxist nuns gives me an awful dose of serious cognitive dissonance. How do you hold those two things in your head at the same time?

HP there was a book about her there the guts of 10 years ago, that had a number of stories that didn't look great. She herself was an orphan from a young age, and had a traumatic upbringing at the hands of an apparently quite disturbed relative who acted as her guardian. I think one of the kids broke off from the family because she wanted to marry someone. There was something about her escaping out of the window of a locked bedroom and cutting off ties. Another of the kids just didn't want to sing and had stage fright. Shirking wasn't on the cards, until she had a breakdown, and then your typical 1950's american mental hospital experience follows. Lots of stuff about manipulation, and wild screaming rows out of nowhere, followed by charm. all shot through with an incredible iron will. To be honest it sounds like a fairly familiar pattern.

Also, you're going to have to take my word on it about nuns. Individual nuns could be great. But Institutionally.... well they're a really horrible mess. There's something intrinsically terrible and brutal about the whole set up. People like Maria's boss nun, just don't get to be the boss nun. even allowing for the magical approach to reality in musicals, it's a bit much.

(My sister was mad into musicals all her life, did dance from the age of three, and had a sweet, clear voice that could rattle windows in their frames. You'll never guess how delighted she was when her school announced that they were starting up the musical again. She was going to definitely get the lead part, she could do it all, she was born for it, er, and her mam was a teacher in the school, so if the music teacher knew what was good for her etc.. Who would it be? Evita? Annie Oakley? 42nd street was too demanding, The nuns weren't going to be keen on the costumes in cats? Well guess how ecstatic she was to hear that it was the sound of music. Even to this day I can cheer her up from the grumpiest of moods, by pointing out she'd have had none of her current problems if she'd stayed in the nuns. And that's when I find out if I've estimated the distance between us correctly)

[ursus arctos]

The progressive nuns that I have known in the US were all members of small orders and identified much more with Dorothy Day than Maria von Trapp. There were also quite a few nuns who were active in the antiwar movement when I was a kid.

I doubt the Catholic Worker Movement ever had much purchase in Ireland, but it is still a source of inspiration here,

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

This may be true, but in the long history of nunnish nunnery, progressive nuns turn up at a half second to midnight, and only a smattering ot them in a select few places. A few good apples can't fix the whole barrel.

[Nocturnal Submission]

Oddly enough Mrs. NS mentioned a few days ago that one of her Irish relatives had just passed away, a former nun who fell in love with a priest who she then married, (obviously) after they'd both quit their holy orders, or whatever the correct terminology is.

I wonder how common that is?

[ursus arctos]

Not exactly an everyday occurrence, but certainly not unheard of either.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Oddly enough Mrs. NS mentioned a few days ago that one of her Irish relatives had just passed away, a former nun who fell in love with a priest who she then married, (obviously) after they'd both quit their holy orders, or whatever the correct terminology is.

I wonder how common that is?

In the early 1960's the number of people entering the clergy went from a record high, to a tiny fraction, nearly overnight, But also you had people dropping out of training, and young priests, brothers and nuns left in large numbers. A lot of these people wound up marrying each other. So it's one of those things that everyone knew an example of somewhere, But the total number wasn't huge. For instance my Irish and history teacher in first year used to be a Brother, who married a nun.

[ursus arctos]

Both of my brothers-in-law left the seminary in that period, though neither of them married nuns.

Then again, two of my aunts left convents about forty years before that.

The number of seminaries here that were built for hundreds of acolytes and now struggle to get a dozen is striking.

[Felicity, I guess so]

Former PhD student was an Italian marxist nun. Returned from Brazil to take the struggle forward in critical theory...

Her then father-in-law was a sevillano ex-priest, liberation theologist in Guatemala who barely escaped with his life in the 80s, who had incredibly rare recordings of indigenous language speakers who were then wiped out

[Patrick Thistle]

I'd like to read TAB's verdict on Nuns on the Run

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Haha, I've never seen it, but Jonathan Lynn probably doesn't know that much about nuns, so the finer points might escape him.

Marxism and nunnery are too many religions to be involved in at once.

[3 Colours Red]

It's a knockabout comedy thriller, I don't think making a grand statement was the point.

[pebblethefish]

I'm still confused about Joe Jackson being a "monstrous, abusive, soul crushing showbusiness gargoyle." The Stepping Out bloke? The Is She Really Going Out With Him bloke? I thought he seemed a reasonably inoffensive nonentity. I mean he does come from Portsmouth, but even I wouldn't go as far as "monstrous" for that.

[Etienne]

Michael and Janet's dad.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

I'm still confused about Joe Jackson being a "monstrous, abusive, soul crushing showbusiness gargoyle." The Stepping Out bloke? The Is She Really Going Out With Him bloke? I thought he seemed a reasonably inoffensive nonentity. I mean he does come from Portsmouth, but even I wouldn't go as far as "monstrous" for that.

Hahaha. I know a couple of people called Joe Jackson, but in the world of appalling showbiz parents there really only is one!

[Stumpy Pepys]

I'm surprised to learn Maria von Trapp was an amalgam of Don Arden and Allen Klein.

[Hot Pepsi]

Hahaha. I know a couple of people called Joe Jackson, but in the world of appalling showbiz parents there really only is one!

I was thinking the “Stepping Out” guy too.

[Patrick Thistle]

I'm still confused about Joe Jackson being a "monstrous, abusive, soul crushing showbusiness gargoyle." The Stepping Out bloke? The Is She Really Going Out With Him bloke? I thought he seemed a reasonably inoffensive nonentity. I mean he does come from Portsmouth, but even I wouldn't go as far as "monstrous" for that.

He was also banned from baseball for fixing the World Series.

[Hot Pepsi]

The documentary Black Fish pretty much put Sea World out of business, as I recall.

[blameless]

liberation theology crazed weegie penguins

File this under both
1) sentences you never, ever thought you'd read, and
2) another reason why OTF remains brilliant after all this time

[Jimski]

Cathy Come Home, a TV "play", but still qualifies as a movie I think, had a major effect on public feeling re homelessness in Britain. Could do with something similar shown today tbh.

[Balderdasha]

In much of South East Asia it's common practice for everyone to spend a year as a monk or as a nun at some point in their lives. So unless every person in South East Asia is "intrinsically terrible and brutal" there might need to be a bit of a re-evaluation.

Though I guess everyone here is mostly talking about Western Christian nuns, not Buddhist ones.

As a child or a young woman I couldn't think of anything worse than joining a convent. Now, I can see the appeal. No pressure to earn money. Surrounded by female friends. Quiet and simplicity. A spot of quiet contemplation, gardening, singing, maybe a bit of community volunteering. If it wasn't for the god-bothering it could be a good life.

MrB just asked what I was writing about. When I told him he first found this incredibly insulting to him, and then declared that the nuns would lock me in a dungeon the minute I had an episode. Which is probably true. Perhaps I'll stay with my current life.