Lobster Boy (was: This Jordan Peterson Guy)

[San Bernardhinault]

Of course I think it has inevitable misogynistic ramifications, in the same way that a patriarchy has inevitable misogynistic ramifications, and Peterson thinks that too. As I said above, I don't think he's explicitly defining women as chaotic nor explicitly defining men as orderly. He points out that those two archetypes were traditionally gendered, chaos as feminine because Chaos was linked by the Greeks to creation, specifically it was the first thing to exist and it gave birth to everything else. A lot of what he talks about is couched in the history of myths. And since the endpoint of order is tyranny, one could by the same logic conclude that he hates men too, because he does indeed think that order will veer toward tyranny unless it's checked by "chaos." He also allows the possibility of women becoming orderly/tyrannical and of men becoming chaotic/anarchic. They were gendered traditionally but they're exclusive to neither sex.

Is it an ill-advised line of argument? Definitely, in so far as people such as yourself are going to conclude that he hates women. But a lot of people, including a lot of women, don't think he hates women, and he doesn't think he does either, so it's up to you to see if you can get them to see the light. I tried to point out where he/they are coming from and you're not interested, so there we are.

I'm not buying this.

He know that defining women as chaos is misogynistic. Yet he decides that he needs a binary system based on old mythologies. And still decides to call it male and female rather than just calling it order and chaos.

Nah. There's really no positive way to spin this that works for me. "Oh, I know it's deeply offensive to call women chaotic, bringing back all kinds of archaic ideas about hysteria and so on. But I really had no choice at all when setting up my manichaean system of order and chaos. I absolutely had to call it female, because that is sort of implied in some ancient mythologies."

It really doesn't hold up.

Also, "Order taken to an extreme is tyranny therefore bad", so calling men "order" is just as offensive? Really? Come on...

[Lang Spoon]

It’s in his fucking books Bruno. In his Serious Book and everything. Dragon of Chaos as a symbol of the feminine. I’m lost. This book is as shit as say Samuel racist evil cunt Huntingdon was with his clash of civilizations democracy is western Christian reheated Weber bullshit in International Relations. Or the fatuous bullshit of Fukuyama twenty five year back.

[Lang Spoon]

The dragon of chaos. That’s not a positive fuckin image man. I’m out of this argument for the good of my mental health.

Fr m now on I’ll only post tweets and articles ridiculing this prick, cos I guess I’m I’m a blinkered arrogant leftist.

[San Bernardhinault]

I understand that it's misogynist to you, but it isn't to him ...

Ah. So if he claims that he doesn't think it's misogynistic, then it can't be.

[Lang Spoon]

Give me strength. I can’t go on I can’t i can’t I can’t. I’ll go on. What in the name of the wee man is the point of his archetype bollocks? Cos he’s a quasi mystical spoofing dilletante (his knowledge of invertebrate hierarchies, folk tales, feminism, history, politics, it’s fucking laughable man). 110 years ago he’d have been a worthless snob fucking theosophist. Yeats without the talent and all the bullshit prejudices and madness. He might as well quote Aleister Creepy and the Golden Dawn bollocks as fucking Jung for all the worth such theories have. Quasi mystical woo justifying a reactionary worldview. Badly written bullshit. To use the old fashioned terms he seems half in love with, he’s a Hysteric.

[Lang Spoon]

It would seem no one could ever clear your Hurdles of Proof, Bruno.

[Lang Spoon]

That’s why I find him so dangerous. He’s spooning seductive sweet smelling bullshit to people with absolutely no critical thinking. my 25 year old soon to be ex flatmate is now reading 12 rules for lobsters, his first book in a year. His interwebs are you tubes of Peterson or full on Alt Right like that Change My Mind cunt. He’s never been to college, he thinks JP is “just saying facts”. Is absolutely blown away “wow, I never knew that” about basic shit like some jobs once having been gendered to men (like weaving) that would becomes what he really sees as “women’s work”. But I can only nudge him away from evil, I fear he will still vote no on abortion on Friday. The silly cunt, I hope he gets his next girlfriend pregnant and learns fast the moral greyness of adulthood. Or maybe he’s the kind of eejit that thinks he should have a real say in whether the pregnancy is terminated.

Really, it would be preferable to never read a book than to only read this bullshit uncritically, shoveling it in like a greasy Dominos.

[Lang Spoon]

Hmmm. Most people I know really have got more RW as they have aged. I’m excepting me (an immature depressive) and a mate I converted to socialism solely with the power of Francis Wheen’s biography of Marx. A fine page turner, even if he’s a despicable wee Euston Manifesto pro Iraq war wank (Wheen obvs, not my man Marx and his abominable carbuncles (as a sufferer of occasional boils on my acne scars, massive sympathies to Poor Karl)).

[Amor de Cosmos]

I'd be ready to believe that a majority get more economically conservative, and maybe that can be extended to stuff like foreign policy or general temperament, but I'd be less ready to believe that people who learn to be non-bigots while young grow more bigoted as they age. I've seen a number of cases of the opposite, like when my uncle turned out to be gay and eventually brought my grandparents around.

Yeah, I found with my contemporaries that, while a few have swung slowly rightwards in middle-age, most become more hardened in their political beliefs — whatever they are — in later life.

[Lang Spoon]

I’m only 42. I was really meaning folk getting more RW as they have kids/property/move to Israel and have kids.

[Lang Spoon]

Having kids seems to ratchet up hang em and flog em tendencies. Even within Ireland, let alone residents of Israel.

[Lang Spoon]

Hurdles of Proof might be a good alt-indie band name.

Very Fugazi derivative sound but.

[Cal Alamein]

"Hey, have you got tickets for H.O.P. yet?"

[Lang Spoon]

https://mobile.twitter.com/blue_labo...83313038856192

Ugh. Those “listening to concerns on immigration” wanks at Blue Labour meet Quillette meet JP and the Rockers Uptown. A synergy of menadacious dishonest bullshit.

Of course the Mainstream Dems say fuck all about inequality (or indeed “identity politics”) but class is certainly an issue in the UK left mainstream. If we all just shut up about transphobes the masses will listen to our social democratic message seems bollocks.

[Lang Spoon]

No real engagement with Peterson’s ideas in there, nice bit of argument from authority as well. I’m guessing the kind of “leftist” that didn’t give two fucks about inequality during the Golden Years of Clinton.

[WOM]

Hi There

WOM...long time reader, first time poster.

This opinion piece is long, relevant and fascinating.

Kind regards, etc.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/2018...dangerous.html

[Lang Spoon]

Currently, Jordan is the darling of the alt-right. He says he is not one of them, but has accepted their affection with relish. Andrew Scheer, the leader of the federal Conservative party, has declined any further appearances on The Rebel, but Jordan continues to appear.

Jordan is not part of the alt-right. He fits no mould. But he should be concerned about what the “dark desires” of the alt-right might be. He could be, perhaps unwittingly, activating “the dark desires” of that mob.

What I’ve been faltingly trying to describe for fucking months. Even if half of that is bitchy academia , he’s a fuckin very unique individual. Cultish woo fer sure in the whole Strong Family Unit.

[Lang Spoon]

You’re a beautiful man, WOM.

[Lang Spoon]

His own Church! Elmer fuckin Gantry

[Tubby Isaacs]

That Blue Labour thing, Christ.

Amazing that Paul Embry would be associated with this lot, isn't it?

(Sorry again, I do honestly try to stop mentioning him).

[ad hoc]

Cheers WOM that was a great piece.

[Lang Spoon]

Embery also getting upset at an Irvine Welsh tweet disrespecting the Irish Nawbags. Of course he’s a pro-lifer as well as a racist.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I don't know if he even opposes abortion.

I expect he just saw somebody backing something liberal who was rude, and clocked it up for his "liberal intolerance" lark.

[Lurgee]

Currently, Jordan is the darling of the alt-right. He says he is not one of them, but has accepted their affection with relish. Andrew Scheer, the leader of the federal Conservative party, has declined any further appearances on The Rebel, but Jordan continues to appear.

Jordan is not part of the alt-right. He fits no mould. But he should be concerned about what the “dark desires” of the alt-right might be. He could be, perhaps unwittingly, activating “the dark desires” of that mob.

What I’ve been faltingly trying to describe for fucking months. Even if half of that is bitchy academia , he’s a fuckin very unique individual. Cultish woo fer sure in the whole Strong Family Unit.

As an aside, it is interesting, how the rugged individualist libertarians of the right seem to need a new 'darling' every 18 months or so. Remember how it used to be Steve Bannon? Milo Yankiwhatsitopoulous? Francis Fukuyama? Ayn rand? It's almost like they need continual reassurance that they are right, rather than, you know, just being convinced they were right.

They burn through their heroes at a fearsome rate.

[ad hoc]

The jail thing is that Peterson says he could be sent for jail for not using the correct pronouns. When in fact he could (maybe, eventually ) be sent to jail for not paying a fine. By these standards I could be sent to jail for parking in the wrong place. It's disingenuous and designed to rile up his base (and I think by now we have to accept that JP has a base)