The Brexit Thread

[anton pulisov]

Perhaps we should remain the thread "The Brexit transition period will never end"?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...to-appease-dup

Interesting how your autocorrect assumes "remain" when you type "rename".

EU need to need out more.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Gove.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Gove apparently for Norway model now.

[Diable Rouge]

To avoid linking to the Sun, James Forsyth (usually of the Spectator) states there will be no backstop proposal this week, and that May is poised to break with the DUP.

[anton pulisov]

Norway model. Pay for EU membership but have no say.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

Any solution that keeps our right to freely travel, live and retire in the EEA and still access UK pensions. Don't give a fuck anymore about the effect on businesses or especially banks, I'm sick of the tax-dodging cunts anyway.

[San Bernardhinault]

Norway model. Pay for EU membership but have no say.

(And funding it with post-modern marmalade rather than oil revenues)

[Eggchaser]

It would be nice if we got Norway's attitude to EVs as well...

[jdsx]

It would be nice if we got Norway's attitude to EVs as well...

I think that's rather unlikely...
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...-says-industry

[Nefertiti2]

Snell Smeeth Flint and around a dozen others apparently
What vile cunts they are

[Toby Gymshorts]

Link is borked, Nef.

[Tubby Isaacs]

.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Snell Smeeth Flint and around a dozen others apparently
What vile cunts they are

I don't like this crowd at all- they're likely looking to May to get them a deal without Freedom of Movement in it, because they hate that.

But I don't yet get what happens if there's a May deal voted down. Article 50 to be extended? I suppose then they wouldn't be able to say they were voting with May to avert No Deal, so it would be much harder for them to do it.

[Lang Spoon]

Labour seem to have made their bed to shit in by their ambiguous six tests nonsense. Even the Snp will find it hard to vote against a customs union retaining deal. The whole thing is a shitmess. Snell and the likes are of course evil scum who should be defenestrated at the first opportunity of getting them near a deselection window, but Labour have sleepwalked into this mess for a large part by their clever clever nonsense Starmer tests. And having idiots like Gardiner near policy decisions.

I’m up in 4 hours and a bit pickled in case this makes even less sense than my usual posts. If NI gets SM, why not the rest of UK that actually has a now existing actually functioning service industry? (However much the manufacturing fetishists/legit concerns eejits UK lab would sacrifice thousands of jobs that don’t involve getting hands physically dirty for the sake of Gammon concerns on FoM). Let’s have a Norway plus customs union for all and only have a bit of a massive recession ffs. If even Gove is talking that shite up.

[Nefertiti2]

The six tests are excellent.

[San Bernardhinault]

Test 3 is dog-whistling dogshit.

[Lang Spoon]

Tomorrow I’m in a proper functioning European city as opposed to scumlord Dublin or the fuckedness of UK benefit sanctions dystopia so fuck it anyways. Let’s have us all ruled by Berlin like the frothers say already happens, at least I’d have security of tenure in my gaff if that was the case.

[Nefertiti2]

Test 3 is dog-whistling dogshit.

Not necessarily- could be interpreted to use different management of free movement as for example the Irish demanding teachers pass an Irish language Test or the reluctance of Germand to recognise other qualifications.

[Lang Spoon]

As is possible anyways under remain: eg requiring EU citizens to register on arrival in idiotland. Most EU states not called Britain or Ireland required Eu citizens from another state to register past a three month vacation (or prove means to support oneself) anyways.

[San Bernardhinault]

Not necessarily- could be interpreted to use different management of free movement as for example the Irish demanding teachers pass an Irish language Test or the reluctance of Germand to recognise other qualifications.

But it doesn't need to be in there, except to pander to the racists. There's no reason for its inclusion, and its very presence could (and probably would) scupper any deal which includes freedom of movement.

[hobbes]

Don't be so wilfully naive SB. Of course something about it has to be in there. Otherwise literally every time Labour did get a question on Brexit it would be about FoM. The gutter press would shot down every other word on any subject with "Labour doesn't want to control our borders! Traitors!" And it's game over. Every Tory in every interview would just go "but Labour want open our borders" and the BBC interviewer would just nod and smile.
The thing that's in there needs to be as vague as possible, to cover off backlash from the press and a good few of their own voters while not actually specifically saying much. Which is what it does.
I'm with you on FoM. I think its the best bit of the EU. But we're in a fucking small minority, even amongst remainers. Ignore it and you're fucked. Support it whole heartedly and you're fucked. So, what to do?

[San Bernardhinault]

So you're saying it's a necessary dog-whistle?

Why not defend FoM instead? It's easy enough to defend if you actually put any effort into it rather than let the racist bollocks win the argument by default.

[Snake Plissken]

How simple does it have to be spelled out. The tests are deliberately not designed to be passed. #2 is basically saying "You're not getting a better deal than the one we have now so we're voting against". However, they were put together based on the idea that a) the Brexiteers - despite all appearances - had a plan, b) the Government wasn't beholded to the lunatic DUP and c) Theresa May had the software update than enabled her to think more than 48 hours ahead. No-one thought that she would be dumb enough to trigger Article 50.

[hobbes]

So you're saying it's a necessary dog-whistle?

Why not defend FoM instead? It's easy enough to defend if you actually put any effort into it rather than let the racist bollocks win the argument by default.

If you like, yes. Given the current political landscape. Like it or not a small majority voted to drive us over a cliff. A lot of that was because of FoM, stoked by the press and the government. And when people are intent on a murder-suicide you don't talk them down by screaming "racist!" In their faces no matter how much you might think it. You also don't get them to stop by completely ignoring what they're saying.

You don't "win" arguments. You win territory in arguments. Then let enough time pass that people forget there was an argument.
Territorially, on FoM were way, way behind. The Brexit argument isn't going to be "won" there, because no one will listen whatever anyone says in defence of FoM. It'll be "won" on two things. How terribly it's going and how fucked it looks like we'll be afterwards. But to make those arguments, you need at least a vague placeholder that says you've listened to people's concerns no matter how distasteful you might find them,

Even the Lib Dems who have set themselves up as the pro-Europe party are leaving the FoM part alone.

[hobbes]

That said. I don't think it's all bread and roses. I think Labour should be explicitly backing remain or a people's vote now on the basis that the referendum was bought paid for and therefore not representative. Lay On thick the whole no better that a banana Republic if it stands/Russian interference/oldest democracy destroyed by small band of traitors angle/destruction of sovereignty thing. Really hit that to counter the walkers who pretend that we have any real sovereignty here.