The Brexit Thread

[Antepli Ejderha]

Ministers consider using volunteers to guard UK borders

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...y_to_clipboard

I think this can go here. I had to check the date to see if it was April 1st.

[Eggchaser]

Cuddly Mr Johnson says we're going back to gunboat diplomacy, only the wogs and darkies will be threatened with a cut in Foreign Aid if they don't act in UK interests as opposed to sending in whatever is left of the Navy.

Ubercunt Peter Bone is pleased.

[Tubby Isaacs]

As the article says, it's not unlike special constables, no?

On balance, I'm happier with volunteers checking passports rather than dealing with public order problems. But that's not all that happy.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Noticed something interesting about the turnout for the Brexit referendum.

https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-...-eu-referendum

Turnout relatively low in Scotland (62%). Whether they're at fault for being lazy bastards, cynical Nats, or whether they deserve a gong for stopping their headbangers from voting, I don't know. I wish turnout had been that low in a few parts of England and Wales, where every pub bore got to the polls.

[Lang Spoon]

Brexit is mainly an English Nat swivel eyed obsession. And the result in scotland was foregone Remain from the start, which probably depressed the turnout both sides.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I'm filing that under "lazy".

Have you seen Tom Holland have his arse handed to him by Steve Bullock?

[treibeis]

Curmudgeon and EU enthusiast, yes.

I mean, I presume he's enthusiastic. He lives there and he married a bloody European, so it's an easy leap to make, but he is a contrary bugger at the best of times.

I'm not a curmudgeon. I just don't like very many things.

Yes, I'm an EU enthusiast. Although there are certain EU laws (or maybe German laws masquerading as EU laws) that, as one of my regulars is wont to say, turns my spunk lumpy. Not being able to vote in any sort of election more significant than ones that determine things like which colour park benches are going to be painted. Or not being able to vote in a referendumto decide whether the city I've lived in for 27 of the last 50 years should spunk away my taxs on hosting the Olympic Games.

I would have voted Remain. However, as an EU citizen resident in an EU country, I wasn't allowed to have my say on whether I'd like to become an non-EU resident in an EU country or not. That wasn't the EU's fault, but it still pissed me off.

[Ginger Yellow]

Not being able to vote in any sort of election more significant than ones that determine things like which colour park benches are going to be painted. Or not being able to vote in a referendumto decide whether the city I've lived in for 27 of the last 50 years should spunk away my taxs on hosting the Olympic Games

I'm not sure how those are even masquerading as EU laws.

[Tubby Isaacs]

National politicians don't want directly elected EU MEPs having too much power. Merkel was likely pissed off enough with the European Parliament foisting Juncker on her, so I don't expect her to be clamouring for new EU Parliament powers soon.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Ministers consider using volunteers to guard UK borders

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...y_to_clipboard

I think this can go here. I had to check the date to see if it was April 1st.

Actually, I've had a bit more of a think about special constables. The antecedents are worse than I thought.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_and_Tans

[Tubby Isaacs]

Real wage growth predictions, via the TUC.



This apparently is less of an issue than some train fares going up by RPI, per Labour today. Talking of inflation, what might have driven that up, eh?

I get really frustrated with this stuff.

Dots. Join them.

[johnr]

The last time you asked them to join the dots, there were no dots to be joined.

This time; well, the protests about the railways - for which Labour's position of renationalisation is very popular - have been planned for weeks at local level, and Labour's messaging today has been to back that up. I know from experience that the street stuff is important in getting people onside. It's how we'll win the next election.

Wage growth predictions - and the reality - will come into it in time, I'm sure.

[Snake Plissken]

Two years ago, a planned Labour campaigned on rail price increases was allegedly trampled all over by the news that Corbyn was not reshuffling his Shadow Cabinet. The bloke really can't win, can he?

[Tubby Isaacs]

The last time you asked them to join the dots, there were no dots to be joined.

This time; well, the protests about the railways - for which Labour's position of renationalisation is very popular - have been planned for weeks at local level, and Labour's messaging today has been to back that up. I know from experience that the street stuff is important in getting people onside. It's how we'll win the next election.

Wage growth predictions - and the reality - will come into it in time, I'm sure.

Rail fares are nothing to do with nationalization or not. They're set by the government, and it's the same policy as before. In that respect the campaign is utterly misleading. Not for the first time lately on rail.

[johnr]

The nationalisation will go hand-in-hand with a fares cap. That's also been the message today. (Or maybe we're saying the same thing?)

[Tubby Isaacs]

Two years ago, a planned Labour campaigned on rail price increases was allegedly trampled all over by the news that Corbyn was not reshuffling his Shadow Cabinet. The bloke really can't win, can he?

How about "Hard Brexit is forcing up inflation, hence the rise in fares today. Let's commit to Soft Brexit and watch the pound recover, and your living standards will improve"?

Call the fare rise "Tory Brexit fare rise".

And I know it's possible that Soft Brexit is his planned destination, but if, for tactical reasons, you're supporting leaving the Single Market, you're complicit in what's making the tickets go up.

[Tubby Isaacs]

The nationalisation will go hand-in-hand with a fares cap. That's also been the message today. (Or maybe we're saying the same thing?)

Nationalization in itself doesn't pay for a fares cap.

Increasing taxpayer subsidy of tickets is needed to do that. Commit to that, tell me where the money's coming from, I'll be delighted to pay that tax.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I'm a bit obsessive about this stuff, because I think Soft Brexit will be a huge call, one of the bravest any politician has ever had to make. I think he genuinely wants to get there, because he hates the Kipper nationalism that drives Hard Brexit. Maybe he'd like to do more state aid, but he can do the sums on the size of the Single Market and he understands the problem with getting on the wrong side of a culture war.

I reckon you have to do more to bring home the costs. Train fares are real.

It was a very impressive campaigning force today, and that's hugely positive. He put that together and deserves huge credit

[Tubby Isaacs]

And as I always say, though he's at the moment going along with leaving the Single Market, he's not even bothered to pretend that he's doing so because "Poles". That's important.

[johnr]

Careful with your enthusiasm Tubbs, you'll be joining us soon...

[Tubby Isaacs]

I'm more enthusiastic than last election time. I think I appreciate the political considerations better since then.

The investment programme is good stuff. And I want to see the campaigning force unleashed on academy chains.

[Lang Spoon]

Just after he’s done supporting pro EU Yes I said Yes in Indyref2.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I'm coming round that way.

The Barnett Formula doesn't look very suited to the new world of English Kipperism.

[johnr]

I'm more enthusiastic than last election time. I think I appreciate the political considerations better since then.

You weren't the only one who misread them last time out. And there's a whole bunch missing it now (many of the #FBPE crowd, for a start, although some are just a bunch of LibDems/centrists trying to stir it up). Which means we have/might well have a much much worse Brexit than we could have, cos of people saying 'Corbyn's a hard Brexiteer' who can't see beyond the end of their noses. It's one of the things that keeps me awake at night*, how folk can't see that if they spend all - all - of their energies attacking the Tories, there's a chance we can get lots of what we currently have re Brexit (albeit after a colossal waste of money and time).

* Talking of which, good night.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I like avowed Remainers as outriders, but there's no way they'd have denied May a majority.