Don't be Shai - the Israel Lobby in UK Politics.

[Nefertiti2]

A Senior Political officer at the Israeli Embassy has been recorded threatening to take down Foreign Office minister Alan Duncan, an outspoken supporter of a Palestinian state.


Mark Regev the Netanyahu apologist who is now Israeli ambassador has apologised profusely and the Brtish governemnt has declared the case closed.

Conspiracy theories can be very dangerous. Talking about the financial influence of the Israel Lobby- perhaps better described as the Likud lobby- is dismissed as aantisemitism. But there is no doubt that Conservative (and to a lesser extent the Labour) Friends of Israel wield massive influence. You just have to look at the way David Cameron shifted his position. At the Beginning of his premiership he called Gaza "massive open prison". He changed his position, and received donations that were not available to him previously.

[G-Man]

Don't be Shai - the Israel Lobby in UK Politics.

Talking about the financial influence of the Israel Lobby- perhaps better described as the Likud lobby- is dismissed as aantisemitism.

Are you saying that these dismissals of anti-semitism could or should be challenged? I mean, the generic conspiracy theories of Jewish capital that controls the world must be dismissed as anti-Semitic, of course. But do you think there are issues of financial influence that can be raised without them being dismissed as being anti-Semitic? If so, how do you think that should be done?

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Don't be Shai - the Israel Lobby in UK Politics.

It's tricky isn't it. If the criticism can be boiled down to "The Israeli Govt are a bunch of Jewish cunts", then that's anti-semitism. But if the criticism can be boiled down to "The Israeli govt are a bunch of cunts (who incidentally happen to be jewish)" then that's probably fair enough. Because they are a bunch of Cunts, and make absolutely no attempt to hide it.

[GCostanza]

Don't be Shai - the Israel Lobby in UK Politics.

G-Man wrote:

Talking about the financial influence of the Israel Lobby- perhaps better described as the Likud lobby- is dismissed as aantisemitism.

Are you saying that these dismissals of anti-semitism could or should be challenged? I mean, the generic conspiracy theories of Jewish capital that controls the world must be dismissed as anti-Semitic, of course. But do you think there are issues of financial influence that can be raised without them being dismissed as being anti-Semitic? If so, how do you think that should be done?

In the US finance industry this theory is encouraged, as a seal of endorsement rather than anything especially anti-Jewish, though the conspiracy theorists might do a sweep of the names of analysts and managers and say they're disproportionately 'Jewish'...
If you want a negative label, as Berba suggests, Zionist should suffice!

[G-Man]

Don't be Shai - the Israel Lobby in UK Politics.

Oh, you can get called anti-Semite for that, too, unless you issue a clear definition of what you mean by "Zionist".

And not all supporters of the Israeli government are necessarily Zionists. There are many different reasons why people support Israel, sometimes in ignorance of the policies they thereby endorse.

[ad hoc]

Don't be Shai - the Israel Lobby in UK Politics.

I feel like Netanyahu and co are playing an extremely dangerous game trying to label all criticism of the occupation as anti-semitic. They risk rendering the term completely meaningless, and thereby no longer an absolute taboo. It's a terribly risky strategy, I think. It doesn't help either that a lot of well meaning "left leaning" people have bought into this and are so anxious to shout anti-semitism that they end up doing Bibi's dark work for him.

[G-Man]

Don't be Shai - the Israel Lobby in UK Politics.

Indeed. Communicating with these well-meaning people is more what I have in mind when asking Nef than with the polemicists. Of course, I also want to be sensitive to Jews who might perceive anti-Semitism where none is intended. And Nef obviously is well-qualified to offer guidance in both respects.

The German left is particularly pro-Israel. One can understand that for obvious reasons. It doesn't help that neo-Nazis sometimes join pro-Palestinian demonstrations, issuing their anti-Semitic propaganda. I can see where they are coming from, but the level of willful ignorance about the realities is sometimes staggering. On a German lefty Facebook thread I was accused of being an anti-Semite for calling the occupation an occupation.

Perhaps, I wondered, they thought I was using the terminology of "occupation" to delegitimise the state of Israel, which obviously was not my intent. So I clarified that I was referring specifically to the occupation of the West Bank. That caused more accusations of anti-Semitism and a denial that the occupation of the West Bank is an occupation. At which point I bowed out of the conversation (though, in fairness, some people also supported my point of view).

[Nefertiti2]

Don't be Shai - the Israel Lobby in UK Politics.

The latest revelations reveal that Shai was behind the setting up of a number of pro Israeli lobby groups

COULD SOMEONE FIX THE LINK TOOL!

[Ginger Yellow]

Don't be Shai - the Israel Lobby in UK Politics.

Meanwhile, in lobbying Israel news, Bibi's in deep doodoo.

[Antepli Ejderha]

Don't be Shai - the Israel Lobby in UK Politics.

So that's where that horrible propagandist Regev ended up, an extremely odious character who span so many lies whenever he appeared in front of the media.

[ad hoc]

Don't be Shai - the Israel Lobby in UK Politics.

Antepli Ejderha wrote: So that's where that horrible propagandist Regev ended up, an extremely odious character who span so many lies whenever he appeared in front of the media.

You can sign a petition to get rid of him as UK ambassador here (I don't know if these things do any good - I suspect not - but I'll share it anyway) https://www.change.org/p/remove-mark-regev-as-israeli-ambassador-to-the-uk-for-interfering-in-british-politics I added that I thought he should be sent to the Hague rather than just kicked out of the country.

[ad hoc]

Don't be Shai - the Israel Lobby in UK Politics.

Peter Oborne, the thinking person's Tory, nails it yet again. http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/if-russia-had-plotted-take-down-british-minister-all-hell-would-have-broken-loose-1311627112

[ad hoc]

Don't be Shai - the Israel Lobby in UK Politics.

It's well worth watching the whole series of 4 documentaries produced by Al Jazeera http://www.aljazeera.com/investigations/thelobby/