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    Europeans are rich enough to afford them, and there's always been a sizable number of Europeans with a boner for American culture. It's pretty obvious.

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      Trump admin denies rntry to USA to Javier SOLANA former NATO general secretary

      https://twitter.com/thomaswright08/status/1011045768742834177

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        Well thanks for explaining what I mean when I say centrist. I do think you have principles, just wooly ones.

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          I agree there has to be living together, but not by giving into their terms.

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            Originally posted by Flynnie View Post
            Europeans are rich enough to afford them, and there's always been a sizable number of Europeans with a boner for American culture. It's pretty obvious.
            Harley love runs deep. It's the two-wheeled equivalent of a Jeep in that regard. Nice product...looks right...feels right...deep history...strong intra-cultural ties. I could go on, but you get it.

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              Originally posted by WOM View Post
              Harley love runs deep. It's the two-wheeled equivalent of a Jeep in that regard. Nice product...looks right...feels right...deep history...strong intra-cultural ties. I could go on, but you get it.
              I'm reminded of a very funny, but also deeply problematic episode of South Park.

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                Originally posted by Bruno
                The author of that controversial NY Times piece on trump supporters digging in was interviewed by Chotiner at Slate:

                https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...epage_taps_top
                Guess he's an expert in digging in, since he interviewed a Republican operative as just another average woman on the street and seems to keep denying that she's a Republican operative.

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                  Chotiner basically nails it by pointing out that all the racist Trumpers don't want to admit to being racist, so try and find something else to justify the fact that they're backing Trump. If the mainstream is pointing out where Trump is racist and his entire administration and deep shithole of corruption, and channeling money to the wealthy, it'll be because "we're pushing back because the far-left are attacking him unfairly". If the mainstream didn't point that out it would be because he's "draining the swamp" or because "he's helping the little man", or whatever. This is just an excuse used by the Trumpistes who know enough to be ashamed to admit they like his racist policies.

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                    Kids in cages is surely the point at which "You can't be sure Trump is a racist" won't wash with anyone unless they are being deliberately obtuse? If they then continue to vote for him, they are deliberately enabling a racist set of policies. Their own prejudice (or lack of it) then becomes irrelevant in considering their moral responsibility. To reverse Bush, if you're not against racism, you're with it.

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                      Ta Nahisi Coates' piece on Trump "The First White President" (which I'm sure I posted about 100 pages back) is essential reading on this.

                      His political career began in advocacy of birtherism, that modern recasting of the old American precept that black people are not fit to be citizens of the country they built. But long before birtherism, Trump had made his worldview clear. He fought to keep blacks out of his buildings, according to the U.S. government; called for the death penalty for the eventually exonerated Central Park Five; and railed against “lazy” black employees. “Black guys counting my money! I hate it,” Trump was once quoted as saying. “The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.” After his cabal of conspiracy theorists forced Barack Obama to present his birth certificate, Trump demanded the president’s college grades (offering $5 million in exchange for them), insisting that Obama was not intelligent enough to have gone to an Ivy League school, and that his acclaimed memoir, Dreams From My Father, had been ghostwritten by a white man, Bill Ayers. It is often said that Trump has no real ideology, which is not true—his ideology is white supremacy, in all its truculent and sanctimonious power. Trump inaugurated his campaign by casting himself as the defender of white maidenhood against Mexican “rapists,” only to be later alleged by multiple accusers, and by his own proud words, to be a sexual violator himself.
                      Replacing Obama is not enough—Trump has made the negation of Obama’s legacy the foundation of his own. And this too is whiteness. “Race is an idea, not a fact,” the historian Nell Irvin Painter has written, and essential to the construct of a “white race” is the idea of not being a nigger. Before Barack Obama, niggers could be manufactured out of Sister Souljahs, Willie Hortons, and Dusky Sallys. But Donald Trump arrived in the wake of something more potent—an entire nigger presidency with nigger health care, nigger climate accords, and nigger justice reform, all of which could be targeted for destruction or redemption, thus reifying the idea of being white. Trump truly is something new—the first president whose entire political existence hinges on the fact of a black president. And so it will not suffice to say that Trump is a white man like all the others who rose to become president. He must be called by his rightful honorific—America’s first white president.

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                        That's so depressing.

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                          I'm sorry FF. Do read the whole piece if you can. and you'll be much better able to judge how true it is. I think he's a very good writer,

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                            Of course almost nobody thinks that they are racist. I'm sure Trump doesn't think he's racist. That doesn't mean he's not or they're not. It's much easier to keep this delusion about yourself - while at the same time you support a government that's creating concentration camps for dark skinned children - if you claim that you support the government because the Extreme Left keep saying mean words.

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                              Texas supreme court overturned plastic bag ban in Laredo.

                              What next, maybe they can say that Stop signs are unconstitutional.

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                                There are two things going on- an attempt to make full on racism fashionable again. (Bannon Miller and the White supremacists, Charlottesville with those "good people on both sides") and as SB points out to make people feel that not liking Mexicans and calling them rapists, thinking black men are uppity and it's usually their fault if they're shot, and the various other all too familiar tropes of public discourse aren't racist , just American.

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                                  How are you going to make headway with the racists who think they're not racist? By ignoring their racism and pretending its not there, lest you hurt their feelings?

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                                    How do you convince a born again Christian that he/she doesn't have a personal relationship with Jesus? You can't. And maybe you shouldn't even try. You just cross over to the other side of the road and point out to as many people as will listen that allowing such a person use the internet, or a telephone, let alone encouraging them to seek high public office is a danger to mankind. That's the situation right now.

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                                      There's quite a big crossover between people who have a personal relationship with Jesus and racists.

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                                        The Motel I stayed in in Moscow last week had a Harley dealership near it, admittedly it was a biker Motel by a biker bar. The dealership had a 50% off sale mind, so I don't know how well it's doing.

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                                          Dealership is one of my favourite words. Better than "garage", as we used to call such things.

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                                            I like that you lot have 'forecourt'. We basically have nothing but 'parking lot', even if that's not what it is.

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                                              Originally posted by Bruno
                                              As Amor said, you're not going to convince the majority of them that they're racists. That leaves you with the options of either trying to work with them in whatever ways possible despite their racism or refusing to work with them.
                                              I'd say that you work to convince the other 80% (or 65% if you're a pessimist) that racism is racist and racist policies are racist and deplorable and should be eliminated.

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                                                Is anything much being said about Obama's work to reduce trade barriers in the light of loads of people suddenly becoming aware of them? Sure, there are different views on trade deals, but strikes me the Very Serious People ought to be rehabilitating his policy rather rapidly.

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                                                  Do you think there are Very Serious People anywhere near policymaking in the US right now, Tubbs?

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                                                    I meant in the media- probably the wrong phrase.

                                                    "The great thing about the presidency is that whatever comes up, one of your predecessors has been there or somewhere like it. Now President Obama saw that..."

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