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[Satchmo Distel]

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US Protectionism (especially at absurd 20% levels) would go so far against the neoliberal trend of the last 30 years that I don't see how it would end happily. They'd have to change the whole culture of international capitalism, which is surely more powerful than one crazy POTUS.

[anton pulisov]

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Iraqi refugees denied entry at JFK airport. That's the thanks they get for having their country blown up.

[Antepli Ejderha]

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Apparently Green Card holders are barred too.
Iran has said that they are reluctantly bringing in reciprocal measures.

[anton pulisov]

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Green card as well, fucking hell. That means that people who have legally worked and lived in the US for years aren't allowed to enter the US.

That is unbelieveable.

If you are an Iranian with a green card living in the USA for years and working for, I dunno, Microsoft, then you can't now leave the country to go to a business meeting because you can't get back in. Worse yet, you could have been at a business meeting this week, and now you are not allowed back into the country where your partner and children live!

[ursus arctos]

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As written, the order applies to all "aliens", and therefore all non-citizens, including Green Card and Visa holders.

There are also reports of dual nationals (i.e., Canadian/Iranian) being turned away at Canadian airports.

A number of court challenges have already been filed, but there is going to be a lot of damage done until (and if) this atrocity is overturned.

[anton pulisov]

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To top it all off, Saudi Arabia isn't on the list. So even with this ridiculous rule, Mohammed Atta and friends could still get in.

[Satchmo Distel]

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The ban clearly contravenes the The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 but which judge or group of congressmen is going to have the courage to uphold that law in the current climate?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965

Trump is apparently relying on some 1950s ruling which the 1965 Act clearly supersedes.

If/when there are ever impeachment hearings against Trump, this should be an item on the agenda.

[anton pulisov]

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The text of the directive is on the Guardian:

The visa-issuance process plays a crucial role in detecting individuals with terrorist ties and stopping them from entering the United States. Perhaps in no instance was that more apparent than the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, when State Department policy prevented consular officers from properly scrutinizing the visa applications of several of the 19 foreign nationals who went on to murder nearly 3,000 Americans. And while the visa-issuance process was reviewed and amended after the September 11 attacks to better detect would-be terrorists from receiving visas, these measures did not stop attacks by foreign nationals who were admitted to the United States.

Numerous foreign-born individuals have been convicted or implicated in terrorism-related crimes since September 11, 2001, including foreign nationals who entered the United States after receiving visitor, student, or employment visas, or who entered through the United States refugee resettlement program. Deteriorating conditions in certain countries due to war, strife, disaster, and civil unrest increase the likelihood that terrorists will use any means possible to enter the United States. The United States must be vigilant during the visa-issuance process to ensure that those approved for admission do not intend to harm Americans and that they have no ties to terrorism.

Meanwhile... guns are no problem.

[anton pulisov]

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The ban clearly contravenes the The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 but which judge or group of congressmen is going to have the courage to uphold that law in the current climate?

Well, he's going to name a fascist to the supreme court, isn't he? And Ginsberg and the others aren't spring chickens either.

This is what the end of democracy looks like.

[Satchmo Distel]

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4g) "State and local jurisdictions may have greater involvement in the process of determining the placement or resettlement of refugees in their jurisdictions."

i.e. Trump is hoping to allow states and towns to reject refugees

[Vulgarian Visigoth]

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antoine polus wrote:

The ban clearly contravenes the The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 but which judge or group of congressmen is going to have the courage to uphold that law in the current climate?

Well, he's going to name a fascist to the supreme court, isn't he? And Ginsberg and the others aren't spring chickens either.

This is what the end of democracy looks like.

And in the meantime we're laughing at his hair. I bet back then people thought Hitler's moustache was dead funny too.

[Satchmo Distel]

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But there are many people in the GOP who have a stake in maintaining a functioning liberal democracy; there must be a limit beyond which they cannot tolerate the encroachment of fascism?

Then there's the economic impact of excluding people who are of value to their employers, and the social impact of splitting up Muslim families (as well as Latino ones when the deportations increase).

[anton pulisov]

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I bet Paul Ryan wishes Merrick Garland was on the Supreme Court.

[Satchmo Distel]

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Ryan et al must think they can rein Trump in somehow but clearly there is no sign of this occurring as of now.

[anton pulisov]

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Who cares about a few Iranians as long as Medicare can be fully privatised.

[Hot Pepsi]

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I'm starting to find this darkly comic in a Heath-Ledger-as-Batman kind of way.

The only Republican actually standing up to Trump is Evan McMullin.

[anton pulisov]

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Darth Trump

[Hot Pepsi]

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Satchmo Distel wrote: But there are many people in the GOP who have a stake in maintaining a functioning liberal democracy; there must be a limit beyond which they cannot tolerate the encroachment of fascism?

Then there's the economic impact of excluding people who are of value to their employers, and the social impact of splitting up Muslim families (as well as Latino ones when the deportations increase).

This is why this type of nativist bullshit never got very far pre-911 (which was when I worked in immigration law for a year and learned a bit about it).

Restricting immigration as he wants to either denies businesses employees that it very much wants or it splits up families. By volume, family visas are most common, but are often for family members of somebody who got in because of a job. There's also a lottery.

I've been thinking that my plan to move to Canada will have to wait until I won't have any reason to ever come back. I hear that, as it is, the border police - mostly the US ones - are becoming bigger and bigger assholes, especially to Canadian residents with American passports.

[Gerontophile]

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Iran have banned all US citizens from entering their country.

Can't be that many.

[Amor de Cosmos]

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Then there's the economic impact of excluding people who are of value to their employers, and the social impact of splitting up Muslim families (as well as Latino ones when the deportations increase).

Canadian tech companies have had trouble hiring at the senior levels, this could be a real shot in the arm for them. There are going to be massive problems at the border though. Iranians are Canada's fourth largest immigrant group, Syrians the sixth.

[anton pulisov]

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Gerontophile wrote: Iran have banned all US citizens from entering their country.

Can't be that many.

There are half a million Iranian Americans.

Most of them live in what is jokingly referred to as "Tehrangeles."

Californian secession just got one step closer.

[Hot Pepsi]

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Yeah, Alecko Eskandarian, as I recall.

IMP's Scottish friend came to a DC United match with us and said he would support D.C. because Esko's dad scored a goal for Scotland while playing for Iran. Though I think Esko considers himself Armenian. Armenians tend to be like that what with the genocide and all.

[Gerontophile]

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Half a million Iranian Americans?

I assume you mean in the USA. I also assume, if they self-describe that way, they will have Iranian passports, and have no problem getting back in, should they wish to. However, I would also assume that some would not want to go back, or indeed have never been.

I am doing a lot of assuming, and another is, that Iran means to ban actual American passport holding Americans. Because if you DO have two passports, why would you use the one which would cause yourself more hassle?

[Lucy Waterman]

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(whoops)

[Lucy Waterman]

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And racist cunts all over the world - including the UK - start believing their own racist demands have a new level of legitimacy, because Trump has set a new precedent for shithead behaviour.

Everything just gets worse. May is a moron for not adopting a "wait-and-see" approach. This could yet end up like the Queen eating cucumber sandwiches with Idi Amin.