Trump's Card

[Snake Plissken]

You know what could be helpful, is not allowing open carry AR-15s. Oh well.

I'm very much of the "kick their fucking heads in" opinion. For a whole number of reasons.

These Nazis were walking down the street, openly carrying a wide array of military hardware. Fine, you brought a gun. Getting shot is now on the table. I believe that there are now a number of laws that allow shooting first in case of self-defence. A mob of Nazis carrying assault rifles and waving torches and flags count. What? I'm only playing by the rules that these fuckers themselves set. This is a bunch of bullies and cowards emboldened enough to try and live out their power fantasies. I find it astonishing that the police, an organisation more than happy to wade into a bunch of people standing around peacefully suddenly get an attack of the First Amendment when the swastika is waved.

Numbers: Saw it mentioned above about not knowing how many there are. This rally attracted about a thousand apparently, and they had to be flown in from places like Ohio.

And to hell with "an eye for an eye". Funnily enough, the people who usually say that, have already taken the other guys eye out. They weren't saying that before they ran over somebody with a car. I'm all for peaceful, good faith negotiation to avoid a conflict but this is a annoying dog yapping on a 500lb gorilla, and the gorilla won't make it stop because it is too busy punching kittens.

Being slightly more reasonable, the Democrats should just say "You've been saying for years that we'll take your guns. Well, guess what? Now we will. You wanted us to. We're giving you what you wanted."

More reasonable, yes. Less realistic, though.

[anton pulisov]

Today's Washington Post (owned by Jeff Bezos) was very critical of Donald Trump's handling of the situation.

Trump on Twitter today:
“Amazon is doing great damage to tax paying retailers. Towns, cities and states throughout the U.S. are being hurt - many jobs being lost!”

[ad hoc]

So you're asking people to die?

Not at all. I think people should defend themselves. But if a March of 1000 fascists is met by a crowd of 10000 normal people using non violent tactics then in most cases that will work.

I grant you that these cunts are unpredictable and being American nazis they will have guns too so it's not a tactic without risk. But compared to the risk of allowing fascists to start marching and organising with impunity I would say it's a risk worth taking. A risk we must take in fact

[Snake Plissken]

It should also be pointed out that they had a lot of guns and wouldn't use them. One of them ran off to get a car. Their leaders ran away terrified before hiding in a hotel lobby to make a televised threat.

[Ginger Yellow]

NY Times article about media platforms such as Discord (a chat app I'd never heard of) turning against their white supremacist users.

Discord is probably the most commonly used chat app for (PC) gaming.

[Ginger Yellow]

I would imagine it's intended to evoke "from discord, find harmony". But honestly I have no idea.

[Incandenza]

I like that GoDaddy.com now suddenly realized that the Daily Stormer was violating their TOS after the article celebrating Heather Heyer's murder. I guess everything published by the Daily Stormer prior to that was fine with GoDaddy.

[Hot Pepsi]

Today's Washington Post (owned by Jeff Bezos) was very critical of Donald Trump's handling of the situation.

Trump on Twitter today:
“Amazon is doing great damage to tax paying retailers. Towns, cities and states throughout the U.S. are being hurt - many jobs being lost!”

He still thinks Amazon doesn't pay taxes.

[Erskine Bridges]

I've recently read 'Proud Journey' by Bob Cooney. An Aberdonian who fought fascism all his life. In Aberdeen against Moseley's blackshirts, in Spain against Franco in the civil war and as a gunner in the Royal Artillery against Hitler in the second world war. And against injustice and for worker's rights in the building industry afterwards. He was blacklisted of course.

What is relevant to this debate is what he did in Aberdeen against the blackshirts. The blackshirts were trying to hold rallies and march in Aberdeen in the thirties and they were backed by the police and the establishment. The blackshirts were opposed everywhere they tried to do this but, for some reason, maybe because there were enough really committed hardy boys like Bob Cooney in The Silver City, they never managed to walk far or get a meeting completed. Guys ended up in prison. Fought the fascists & the polis with chants & disruption and fists & weapons. They never took hold in Britain then and the far right have always been, in my lifetime, in my view, figures of ridicule in the UK, dismissed as nasty but largely irrelevant. Particularly in Scotland.

Cooney was a Marxist who'd spent time in Moscow earlier in the thirties so he was well versed in the 'struggle' but there were plenty others who weren't dyed in the wool communists who were prepared to fight, who knew the dangers long before the world woke up to Hitler.

America today, the KKK and white supremists are different to the blackshirts and Nazis. The press is different, the world is different. Circumstances are different. But they are also just the same. You're not going to educate these people into changing their views. Who was it wrote 'When I meet a fascist I don't debate with him, I acquaint his head with a pavement'?

I'm not entirely sure I agree with that but if it wasn't for the likes of Bob Cooney actually doing it we'd be living in a different world today. Maybe one where our leaders are actually fascists or fascist sympathisers themselves. Mmm.

[ursus arctos]

Yes, though a paraphrase

In the case of Menilmontant, as far as I can tell from here, the operation was handled in the diametrically opposite way.
L 'Humanite reports that there were no more than sixty fascists in a thoroughly working class neighborhood! The tactical,
or if you will, "technical," task was quite simple-grab every fascist or every isolated group of fascists by their collars, acquaint them
with the pavement a few times, strip them of their fascist insignia and documents, and without carrying things any
further, leave them with their fright and a few good black and blue marks.

From here.

[Hot Pepsi]

I've recently read 'Proud Journey' by Bob Cooney. An Aberdonian who fought fascism all his life. In Aberdeen against Moseley's blackshirts, in Spain against Franco in the civil war and as a gunner in the Royal Artillery against Hitler in the second world war. And against injustice and for worker's rights in the building industry afterwards. He was blacklisted of course.

What is relevant to this debate is what he did in Aberdeen against the blackshirts. The blackshirts were trying to hold rallies and march in Aberdeen in the thirties and they were backed by the police and the establishment. The blackshirts were opposed everywhere they tried to do this but, for some reason, maybe because there were enough really committed hardy boys like Bob Cooney in The Silver City, they never managed to walk far or get a meeting completed. Guys ended up in prison. Fought the fascists & the polis with chants & disruption and fists & weapons. They never took hold in Britain then and the far right have always been, in my lifetime, in my view, figures of ridicule in the UK, dismissed as nasty but largely irrelevant. Particularly in Scotland.

Cooney was a Marxist who'd spent time in Moscow earlier in the thirties so he was well versed in the 'struggle' but there were plenty others who weren't dyed in the wool communists who were prepared to fight, who knew the dangers long before the world woke up to Hitler.

America today, the KKK and white supremists are different to the blackshirts and Nazis. The press is different, the world is different. Circumstances are different. But they are also just the same. You're not going to educate these people into changing their views. Who was it wrote 'When I meet a fascist I don't debate with him, I acquaint his head with a pavement'?

I'm not entirely sure I agree with that but if it wasn't for the likes of Bob Cooney actually doing it we'd be living in a different world today. Maybe one where our leaders are actually fascists or fascist sympathisers themselves. Mmm.

The problem with that, other than the guns and the likelihood of a lot more death, is that if the law makes exceptions to the First Amendment on one side, saying, for example, that everyone gets free speech except Nazis, then the established powers will (and have) used those same laws to put down dissent. We already see this at universities. Berkeley's president decided that criticism of Israel is deemed to be "hate speech." It's not hard to imagine that in some states, Islam will be outlawed due to some bullshit about "stopping sharia." Lots of Republicans want to label BLM a terrorist group. And on and on. It's too high of a price to pay. This isn't about some abstract principle thought up by Voltaire. It's about the survival of vital, but unpopular - at least initially - movements like BDS, BLM, etc.

[ursus arctos]

Instructive piece on the German American Bund.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Trump's managed to knock Mitch McConnell's ratings negative with Republicans.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...blicans-241670

He can do that to a few more. The Republicans can't let him carry on doing this for too much longer.

[anton pulisov]

Asked who is more conservative, 50 percent of Republicans say Trump is, compared with 25 percent who pick McConnell.

Hahahahaha. So much for conservativism caring about the sanctity of marriage, then.

[caja-dglh]

I watched Colbert on Monday. The Mooch was on. It has really made me reflect on the speed of the news cycle right now; when they announced him last week it was quite a scoop. By the time he was on he was yesterday's news.

[Incandenza]

Speaking of that, the "March On Google" in cities with Google offices has been cancelled, the organizers say because of "alt-left terrorist threats." Methinks that they realized that they weren't part of the news cycle anymore, feared getting lumped in with Nazis, or feared some actual resistance from counter-protesters, or some combination of all three.

[NHH]

It's like the mass of the right is always just a focus for organised hypocrisy and animus, regardless of whether it's leaders describe as conservatives or nationalists.

[Antepli Ejderha]

Both the former Bush presidents have condemned Trump. Sadly not by using his name. Come on just call a spade a spade.

[ursus arctos]

Facing mass defections, 45 dissolves both of his CEO advisory councils

[Hot Pepsi]

Facing mass defections, 45 dissolves both of his CEO advisory councils

What was the point of those anyway?

[ursus arctos]

To provide cover for all of those "pro-business" Republicans who voted for him in order to get tax cuts and deregulation

[Gerontophile]

Pure "glamour'. As a witch would use the word.

[Eggchaser]

Two Trump voters on Radio 5 just now.

It's the media's fault for reporting on the march in advance as it encouraged the antifa to turn up.

The support of the ex-head of the kkk means nothing because he's a clown.

Antifa were violent.

Trump's the only one to tell it like it is.

Media.

Nazis get free speech.


Media

Etc.

Shockingly, one of these cretins was a black woman. Seriously, how does she look at herself in the mirror?

[Hot Pepsi]

Sometimes they get sucked into it by right-wing evangelical churches.

[ursus arctos]

And others are grifting (see Omarosa and "Diamond and Silk").

Then there are the full-time contrarians and trolls.

But it is a huge country, with more than 300 million people.

There are "true believers" for every possible point of view.