Corb Blimey!

[Nefertiti2]

Instead of pausing to register this historic shock to Britain’s political order—and with the Tories in complete disarray—Corbyn’s enemies in the plp launched an immediate leadership challenge against him, based on the claim that Corbyn had ‘deliberately sabotaged’ the referendum campaign. On closer inspection, the main charge was that Corbyn had refused to say that immigration was a bad thing: in other words, he was too internationalist for their liking.footnote17 There was no danger that such flagrant contradictions would be highlighted by a media that was cheering on the heave, and the idea of Corbyn as a ‘closet Leaver’ took on a life of its own.footnote18 Using tactics honed by Tom Watson in his days as Brown’s hatchet-man against Blair, dozens of shadow-cabinet members resigned in quick succession, and Labour mps passed a vote of no confidence in Corbyn by a huge majority: 172 to 40.footnote19

[delicatemoth]

Financial Times now aboard Corbyn's Revolution Choo Choo. Can people stop calling him 'hard left' now?

[DCI Harry Batt]

He's an utter knobcheese, choosing today to announce that after all he would refuse a Scottish independence referendum.

[George C.]

Not that I agree, but makes sense to the British left, they can barely afford to lose potentially 50+ anti-Tory MPs?

[Snake Plissken]

He's an utter knobcheese, choosing today to announce that after all he would refuse a Scottish independence referendum.

Except he didn't.

[Lang Spoon]

"In the formative years of a Labour government we wouldn't agree to another independence referendum because we will be fully focused on (our) central priorities."

I dunno, seems like that's what the dozy fucking cunt is doing here. Reverse ferreting all over the place.

[Lang Spoon]

[URL]https://twitter.com/LabourRichard/status/1167012697193484288[/URL]

Branch Office Mgr echoing Big Boss.

[Satchmo Distel]

Huge double standard arguing for a new vote on Brexit but not on Scotland given that the issues have so many overlaps. The last referendum is no longer a reliable measure of current opinion in both cases.

"unwanted second independence referendum" is just a lie, of course.

[Lang Spoon]

And polls in Scotland now show a majority want a ref in future no matter what, and right away in the case of Shit Stain Brexit.

[Lang Spoon]

Labour is a total mess on the Scottish Question, where their decline is probably terminal in any case.

[NHH]

The word ‘formative’ is the crucial term here, though surely.

[Lang Spoon]

also says "years". Why the fuck should Scotland have to wait years, chained to a gammon corpse?

[Snake Plissken]

"In the formative years of a Labour government we wouldn't agree to another independence referendum because we will be fully focused on (our) central priorities."

I dunno, seems like that's what the dozy fucking cunt is doing here. Reverse ferreting all over the place.

You - and you're not the only one - seem to have missed out the next sentence.

“However, if at some future point there was a legitimate and fresh mandate, we wouldn’t block it.”

It's fairly bloody obvious what he is saying. Should Labour get in Government, it's got a complete shitshow to sort out and that is going to tie everybody up for a while. Once it has done that, then assuming support for a second IndyRef is sufficient, then they won't stand in their way. Priorities, for fucks sake. It's all well and good arguing about Scottish independence, but not while the NHS and other public services are on fire.

[Snake Plissken]

One of those things that needs sorting out, BTW, is the use of Facebook and other social media to spread fake news and lies without regulation or accountability. Or do you want to go into a second IndyRef knowing that hordes of bots are flooding the Internet with shit?

[Lang Spoon]

The Scottish Parliament has a majority of Pro Indy parties. It has passed a motion authorizing a second ref. They already have a mandate.

and yeah, from Wings over Scotland down, folk spreading lies on the internet needs halting. But that applies Worldwide.

[Lang Spoon]

Labour promised Home Rule for a century. And did fuck all, indeed Scottish Labour were dead set against even the 70s milquetoast Assembly proposal. Scotland should leave this shitfire ASAP and shouldn't need permission from Big House to hold a ref to do so.

[Snake Plissken]

He'd have to find it on a map first. His atlases only note an area full of wildlings known as Caledonia.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Labour is a total mess on the Scottish Question, where their decline is probably terminal in any case.

The problem for the leadership of the labour party is that like on so many issues that there is no good answer. Only varying degrees of bad ones. The Union is done. If labour recognizes that, and promises a second referendum, and sets Scottish labour free to be a pro independence party, that is literally all that this imminent election will be about. Labour has to listen to their scottish party to see what they want, and maybe they don't want a second referendum. How do you turn on them? They've got to be aware by now that they're never going to have more than a handful of Mps in scotland, and that this might be the last UK election, but there remains the knowledge that every decision is going to be the wrong one.

This response with its talk of years, and needing to get enough progress done and then maybe thinking about having a second referendum under certain circumstances, does seem calculated to cause apoplexy in Scotland. Scottish people saw what happened to people's attempts to get a second EU referendum through the labour party conference. Vague lukewarm assurances that you all want the same things, and political stonewalling might work on people who consider labour party unity paramount, and have to hope that the leadership isn't going to just fuck them. But I don't think that's a major feature of scottish political life at this point in time.

[DCI Harry Batt]

Yeah I read the story in full and the Corbyn quotes and the Leonard quotes. It's clear to me what he's saying - that he thinks it's for the UK prime minister to decide if Scotland has jumped through the right hoops for him to allow a referendum. And whether it does or not, it won't be allowed now.

Clear. Let's not pretend otherwise.

[Lang Spoon]

Shit like this probably adds a few thousand more undecideds into the Yes camp.

[Lang Spoon]

Corbyn's Labour is so all over the place with Scotland and Wales it's unreal. He spent his Welsh visit last week talking about English policies on Health etc, ignoring the devolved govt run by his fucking party.

Useless leonard spends half his time calling on the SNP to Do Something about Reserved matters.

ill laugh like a drain when Plaid take over the Assembly.

[DCI Harry Batt]

Shit like this probably adds a few thousand more undecideds into the Yes camp.

Yeah, we should look on the bright side.

[tuckwat]

Possibly more concerning is the RMT kicking Clive Lewis off their parliamentary group because he dared slag off Lexit activist Eddie Dempsey, for his Farage platform-sharing. There's a worrying divide opening up between a kind of reductive "Blue Corbynism" and the more obviously anti-racist remainder of the movement.

I did see this at the time but am only responding now and sorry for hijacking the thread. I have been wanting to leave the RMT since they backed Leave and some other reasons, but they are a really strong union and we may have a dispute coming up which is why I am prevaricating . If I leave it would have to be either ASLEF ( but I don't drive a train and I don't like the fact they still call themselves ASLEF) or UNITE who were in part the Transport and General Workers Union and always seen as the bus crews union.Then there is always the Industrial Workers of the World Union which is a nice romantic idea but is it a practical ?Most people I work with are Leave /vote Brexit party types but will always go on strike bless 'em. Any advice appreciated.

[George C.]

Corbyn's Labour is so all over the place with Scotland and Wales it's unreal. He spent his Welsh visit last week talking about English policies on Health etc, ignoring the devolved govt run by his fucking party.

Useless leonard spends half his time calling on the SNP to Do Something about Reserved matters.

ill laugh like a drain when Plaid take over the Assembly.

I think that's a bit of a stretch, sadly.

[DCI Harry Batt]

Much as the RMT has some utterly appalling leaders, and some very poor formal politics, I'd stick with the strongest union in your workplace.