Corb Blimey!

[Tubby Isaacs]

Shawcroft did her best to live up to stereotypes there. All that effort into winning an internal position of power, and be hopeless at it.

[Lurgee]

The original complaint about Bull seems to have been eceived a year ago, when Ann Black was doing the job. Quiet why it has been rattling on this long I do not know. I'd have thought it was pretty much a slum-dunk to get rid of the creep.

We don't know what information Shawcroft had or (does this sound familiar?) if she saw the image. It is quite conceivable she got a counter-complaint / massively self-justifying statement from Bull and responded to that. Though that might clear her of the charge of being a Fiendish Defender of the Anti-Semites, going off half-cocked might make her judgement rather suspect.

[Lucy Waterman]

I think that's all reasonable, Lurgee. Shawcroft has now said she didn't see the original image - what I can't quite understand is how this sits with her claim in the email that the post was "taken completely out of context". How can she have known that without seeing the post and its context?

[Lurgee]

My reading of it is that Bull basically manipulated the situation - he saw a new appointee taking over Black's job, sent her a long, lachrymose letter about how hard done by he was, how the forces of Evil had brought him down just days from a famous victory, and she bought it, fired off an email to sort it out without really looking into it.

[Lucy Waterman]

2,000 people have signed an anti Semitic letter to Corbyn about Monday's protest. Two thousand.

[Lucy Waterman]

My reading of it is that Bull basically manipulated the situation - he saw a new appointee taking over Black's job, sent her a long, lachrymose letter about how hard done by he was, how the forces of Evil had brought him down just days from a famous victory, and she bought it, fired off an email to sort it out without really looking into it.

I can believe all that - but how could she be so stupid? She sent the email after the mural story broke! Was there nothing about the words "anti semitism complaint" that made her think, I'd better be really careful to get this one right? Or did she just think, "anti semitism complaint, that'll be bollocks like the rest of them"? Well, we'll never know. But she won't get the benefit of the doubt from me.

[E10 Rifle]

Yeah I don't think her position is defensible. I despair sometimes

[Bizarre Löw Triangle]

2,000 people have signed an anti Semitic letter to Corbyn about Monday's protest. Two thousand.

Kick every single one of them out of the party (assuming they're members).

[ooh aah]

The letter is anti-semitic, or complaining about anti-semitism?

I'm starting to get confused.

[Tubby Isaacs]

The letter. "Very powerful special interest group" and all that.

[Etienne]

Lucy is saying that the letter is anti-Semitic. I don't think that it is, though it is certainly problematic.

I think Lucy is spot on about Shawcross though.

[Gangster Octopus]

2,000 people have signed an anti Semitic letter to Corbyn about Monday's protest. Two thousand.

And who are they?

[Lucy Waterman]

I think the AS is deliberately deniable, but I can't read this any other way, in the context of a protest organised by Jewish groups.

Yesterday we witnessed the full onslaught of a very powerful special interest group mobilising its apparent, immense strength against you.

It is clear this group can employ the full might of the BBC to make sure its voice is heard very loudly and clearly. It is a shame not every special interest group can get the same coverage.

But, and it is a very big BUT, we live in a democracy, a one member one vote democracy and no special interest group, regardless of their history or influence, can be allowed to dictate who the rest of us can vote for or how we vote

They're a very powerful special interest group who control the media and have a "history". That's a lot of dog whistles.

[Tubby Isaacs]

It's Shawcroft (Christine), Etienne. You might be thinking of Val Shawcross, whose a diligent London government face.

[Etienne]

Is "Very powerful special interest group" anti-Semitic? That is clearly the problematic line, but while it treads on very dodgy ground I'm not sure in itself it constitutes anti-Semitism. I mean saying AIPAC is a "very powerful special interest group" would be a statement of fact for the US.

Ill advised certainly, but I don't think you can do much about that sort of FB post.

[Lucy Waterman]

The NS made that mistake too. Reminds me of the Owen Jones/Smith thing.

[Lucy Waterman]

Is "Very powerful special interest group" anti-Semitic? That is clearly the problematic line, but while it treads on very dodgy ground I'm not sure in itself it constitutes anti-Semitism. I mean saying AIPAC is a "very powerful special interest group" would be a statement of fact for the US.

Ill advised certainly, but I don't think you can do much about that sort of FB post.

For me, it's not simply that line, but that in combination with the running-the-media bit and the suggestion that this group is treated more favourably than other minorities, both of which are classic AS tropes.

[Etienne]

Thanks Tubby.

LW, I think the "history" line was a ham-fisted way to say "despite their history of suffering" rather than "their history of malign influence behind the scenes".

But I agree it can be read both ways.

[ooh aah]

I'm not sure that the anti-semitism there is even deniable tbh. Seems pretty blatant to me, and I'm usually fairly skeptical about such claims.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I can believe all that - but how could she be so stupid? She sent the email after the mural story broke! Was there nothing about the words "anti semitism complaint" that made her think, I'd better be really careful to get this one right? Or did she just think, "anti semitism complaint, that'll be bollocks like the rest of them"? Well, we'll never know. But she won't get the benefit of the doubt from me.

It looks like exactly this.

You can almost hear her brain whirring.

[Flynnie]

I think the AS is deliberately deniable, but I can't read this any other way, in the context of a protest organised by Jewish groups.



They're a very powerful special interest group who control the media and have a "history". That's a lot of dog whistles.

They would actually be less antisemitic if they just flat out said "The Israel lobby". No one really denies its existence anymore.

[Tubby Isaacs]

They would actually be less antisemitic if they just flat out said "The Israel lobby". No one really denies its existence anymore.

That wouldn't be great either. Jews don't tend to like being told "it's really about Israel, isn't it?"

[ad hoc]

That's true and it is al;ways wise to try and avoid that connection (and it would have been problematic here, given that this is not about Israel)

However there is very definitely an Israel lobby, and it is not anti semitic to point that out, when it applies.

[Lurgee]

It was really, really stupidly worded. Now is not the time to be raving about shadowy elites working evil behind the scenes!

[Tubby Isaacs]

That's true and it is al;ways wise to try and avoid that connection (and it would have been problematic here, given that this is not about Israel)

However there is very definitely an Israel lobby, and it is not anti semitic to point that out, when it applies.

Absolutely.