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    TG, the real justice system has not “refused“ to do anything in this case. Not yet, at least. It’s still in process. These things take a while. I’m not sure why, exactly, but I’m not a professional prosecutor and neither are you.

    Certainly, it’s better that they get their ducks in a row than make a mistake and get the case thrown out on a technicality. And if these cops aren’t charged - I’d be shocked if the main one, at least, isn’t charged - it won’t matter how long it took the prosecutor to make that decision.

    It doesn’t benefit minorities - of any kind - to have prosecutors pick which cases to pursue based on how many phone calls they get, rather than the law.

    Because in many parts of the US, in most cases, the political pressure on prosecutors is to be “tough on crime.” And we know what that really means. So if it comes down to pure politics, rather than the constitution, the side of justice is going to lose more often than not. That is, after all, how we got into this situation.

    Now I suppose that if this were not a well publicized case, then it might make sense for the people of in that prosecutor’s county to remind him that they’re paying attention and will remember his response the next time he’s up for election. Certainly, the racists are doing that. So it’s good to at least balance that out. But in this case, he certainly knows what’s at stake and whose votes he’s risking or courting either way he decides to go. He doesn’t need the mayor or a bunch of Hollywood actors - or anyone, really - to flood his office to remind him.



    But having said that... it is certain that, in many of these cases at least, nothing would be have been done at all if somebody hadn’t recorded it, (when will we stop saying “film?”) and the police might bury the video if it wasn’t made public, or at least given to the press. But it’s not like the Minnesota news, let alone the world news, would have waited for this to go viral before reporting on it.


    Why whatername could not be charged with “attempted murder” has been answered elsewhere, but I see no evidence that her wish or expectation was that the cops would come and kill the birdwatcher guy. It’s certainly a possible outcome, and she is probably aware of that, but she probably just wanted him to be taken away. Certainly, it would be nearly impossible for a prosecution to prove otherwise.

    If calling the calling the police is broadly viewed by the law as the same as putting a hit on somebody, nobody will ever call the police ever again. That would not actually be good for public safety.

    There’s just no legal shortcut here. If the police can’t be trusted to enforce the law fairly, injustice will continue and public safety will be compromised, especially for people of color. And there’s no easy way to fix the police, not least of all because there is no entity called “the police.” There are thousands of separate but overlapping law enforcement agencies, each with their own culture, rules and political influences.


    To answer the other question. I would vote for Klobucher if the alternative is a Trumpist. 100 times out of 100. Anyone who says otherwise either doesn’t really get what is at stake or does get it and is a racist. I would not likely vote for her in a primary, but then that has never come up since I don’t live in Minnesota.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Foot of Astaire's View Post

      To answer the 2nd question first, I'd say she should be charged with 'wasting Police time' or whatever the US equivalent is.
      Ok, fair enough, its good that we can agree she should be charged with something, that's enough for me.

      She's making an emergency call to the Police and grossly exaggerating the circumstances
      No, she is not exaggerating anything, she has completely fabricated the entire event from start to finish. exaggeration implies there is an element of truth.
      She was the aggressor going from a safe distance to being up in his face with dog in hand clearly trying to incite or goad him into an altercation.

      to get a quick response.
      No, it was to get a violent response.

      It's appalling. It happens a lot.
      Yes, because every time it happens, they get away with it so there is no deterrent. It would stop instantly if people started getting arrested and serious charges filed.

      To charge her with attempted murder you would have to convince a jury that her call to the Police was in the hope that a white, racist, stupid, trigger happy cop would turn up and kill him.
      By this response it is clear you know very little of US history, so I'll fill you in.
      Most of the lynching and Massacres during the Jim Crow era of the United States were as a result of an allegation from a white woman that she was physically/Verbally/Sexually assaulted or not shown appropriate defference by a black man.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosewood_massacre
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre

      All white women in America know that throughout the history of their country the have the ability to end a black man's life just through the power of an accusation which is why this is such a heinous crime.

      The US civil rights movement is a result of a baseless accusation of a white woman that led to the lynching of a black boy, have a read of this.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Till

      These women know what they are doing, they weaponize their gender and race as a tool to intimidate and bully primarily black men safe in the knowledge any response however small will be seen as probably cause to either seriously harm him or end his life.
      Have you not once wondered why these incidents are mainly white women harassing black men?

      Despite the appalling events in Minneapolis, that's still a huge leap for her to expect that to happen and from behaving like an asshole to attempting to murder them, no?
      I strongly advise you to look at the links above, I hope they cause you to re-evaluate your view.
      The events in Minneapolis are not (as far as I am aware) linked to a false accusation from a white woman, if so, I stand corrected.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
        Why whatername could not be charged with “attempted murder” has been answered elsewhere, but I see no evidence that her wish or expectation was that the cops would come and kill the birdwatcher guy. It’s certainly a possible outcome, and she is probably aware of that, but she probably just wanted him to be taken away. Certainly, it would be nearly impossible for a prosecution to prove otherwise.

        If calling the calling the police is broadly viewed by the law as the same as putting a hit on somebody, nobody will ever call the police ever again. That would not actually be good for public safety
        I think you are giving her way too much credit, HP.
        I disagree with your last paragraph too, it could only possibly apply if this was a genuine emergency call which it clearly wasn't.

        Comment


          I’m not really sure how much credit to give her, but I’m confident that most people, even racists, don’t want to watch anyone get killed, just like most meat-eaters don’t want to see how that’s made.

          And I think I’m safe in guessing that most arrests in New York happen without much violence or resistance, even if they’re completely unjustified. Because if that weren’t true, there’s have been thousands and thousands of police shootings last year, instead of just the 52 reported, and New York would be like it is in Escape From New York and I feel like the Times would have reported on that and there’d be memes about it that I’d have seen.

          As this article points out, there were about 210,000 arrests in NYC last year and the police said they used force in about 8,000, usually “physical force,” as opposed to a gun or taser. Even if they’re off by a factor of 10, that’s less than half.

          https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...4ai-story.html

          (Of course, the police union blames the increase on “pro crime rhetoric.” Fuck off).


          I certainly agree that willfully filing a false report should be punished for the same reason why diving must be called in soccer or hockey - if it’s not punished, it’s going to keep happening.

          But we need to give people the benefit of the doubt - maybe not in this case, but usually - that if they’re reporting something, they’re doing so in good faith. If people think the cops aren’t going to believe them or are going to be accusatory or defensive when they call, they just won’t report anything.

          If people call in good faith, but they misidentify a suspect or misunderstand a situation, they should not be punished for that.

          And it should not be assumed that their goal was to get people killed. I want to stop robberies and assaults and what not if I see them happening, but it doesn’t mean I want to see anyone get maimed or killed.

          And sometimes the police are called because somebody thinks there’s somebody in the attic but it’s a squirrel.

          https://youtu.be/npxaMe1Bh2o
          Last edited by Hot Pepsi; 29-05-2020, 02:12.

          Comment


            https://twitter.com/DannySpewak/status/1266210009744105473

            Comment


              They have called out the National Guard

              Comment


                Trump: “when the looting starts, the shooting starts.”

                Comment


                  Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                  They have called out the National Guard
                  And 10cc earworm.


                  Comment


                    It’s like a script.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Tactical Genius View Post
                      By this response it is clear you know very little of US history, so I'll fill you in.
                      Most of the lynching and Massacres during the Jim Crow era of the United States were as a result of an allegation from a white woman that she was physically/Verbally/Sexually assaulted or not shown appropriate defference by a black man.
                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosewood_massacre
                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre

                      All white women in America know that throughout the history of their country the have the ability to end a black man's life just through the power of an accusation which is why this is such a heinous crime.
                      .
                      I'm certainly no expert on US history. Thank you for the links (above), neither of which I knew about. I know the Emmett Till story well.

                      I cant bridge the gap between those cases (2 of which are almost a 100 years ago) and a hysterical woman ringing the Police, or threatening to, in NYC in 2020, expecting and hoping that will lead to his death.
                      Last edited by Foot of Astaire's; 29-05-2020, 07:02.

                      Comment


                        https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1266257353378197505

                        Comment


                          If it goes to court, and she’s charged (rightly) with wasting police time (or making a malicious or racially motivated report, which I fully get could have ended up going very badly for him), that business with the dog treats is going to come up. It shouldn’t have sent her into KKK mode. It would have freaked out almost any woman and a lot of men. Saying “... You won’t like it” and offering the dog treats (which she wasn’t to know were treats) was menacing in any context, and we’ve all grown up watching scary films and we watch everyday thrilllers, from Law & Order to scandi-noir to Luther via Morse, where a woman is murdered in such circumstances. Women walk around conscious all the time that a man could kill us if we walk across the park, get into their car, whatever. Not a black man, any man.

                          There’s a kind of running gag on here about guys peeling an apple in a menacing manner.

                          Most of you are sensitive enough to cross the road or hang back if you’re following a woman up the road at night.

                          I’m absolutely not defending her call to the police or her near-strangling of the dog, but it bothers me that his words and actions are completely disregarded as a factor in the escalation of what should have just been a tutting and muttering incident.

                          [To add: if all white women know they can “end a black man’s life with an accusation”, a lot of men know they can terrify a woman with a menacing stare and that her fear will not be baseless, although they can claim complete innocence or ignorance (“What? I was just looking at her as she was talking!”). I’ve been attacked a few times, been afraid for my life many times, been deliberately made afraid many times, also. This is a common female experience. When you’re scared, maybe you hit back with whatever weapon you have to hand. Hers was a weapon she shouldn’t have.]
                          Last edited by MsD; 29-05-2020, 07:56.

                          Comment


                            Hah, twitter are giving a warning about "glorifying violence" on one of Trump's tweets.

                            View in twitter to see the warning.

                            https://twitter.com/mrdanwalker/status/1266258864220934147

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Foot of Astaire's View Post

                              I'm certainly no expert on US history. Thank you for the links (above), neither of which I knew about. I know the Emmett Till story well.

                              I cant bridge the gap between those cases (2 of which are almost a 100 years ago) and a hysterical woman ringing the Police, or threatening to, in NYC in 2020 and expecting that will lead to his death.
                              Very little has changed in this aspect of American culture as you well know. As per your request, i will link to stuff more recent.
                              This is from 25 years ago, hopefully that is recent enough.
                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Smith

                              Not recent enough for you?
                              Ok, how about last week?
                              https://www.tampabay.com/news/crime/...th-his-murder/

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Jimski View Post
                                Hah, twitter are giving a warning about "glorifying violence" on one of Trump's tweets.

                                View in twitter to see the warning.

                                https://twitter.com/mrdanwalker/status/1266258864220934147
                                Trump is doing the same thing Obama did.
                                I wonder if Trump will now sign some Blue lives matter laws.

                                Comment


                                  I have just realised excessive eye-rolling can give you a bad headache.

                                  Comment


                                    There might be merit in establishing a fund or network of pro bono lawyers by which those racists who call the police could be pursued through civil action, which would range, depending on the outcome of their calls, from crime injura to wrongful death. Even if some or most or even all those cases might not be won, the threat of financial ruin might concentrate some racist minds.

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by G-Man View Post
                                      There might be merit in establishing a fund or network of pro bono lawyers by which those racists who call the police could be pursued through civil action, which would range, depending on the outcome of their calls, from crime injura to wrongful death.
                                      That Market has already been cornered by Lee Merritt and Benjamin Crump. You would have seen these guys in all the high profile cases of wrongful death from Trayvon Martin onwards.

                                      Even if some or most or even all those cases might not be won, the threat of financial ruin might concentrate some racist minds.
                                      This I subscribe to 100%, Lump criminal and civil charges on these people and have them in and out of court for a year regardless of the likeleyhood of a successful conviction. Do we need to see someone to die or be seriously injured on Youtube before someone takes action. We laughed and mocked when we saw BBQ Becky and Permit Patty.

                                      But this is ridiculous, and in central park of all places with all the recent overtones.

                                      Comment


                                        [URL="https://twitter.com/asjadnazir/status/1266313120512909312"]https://twitter.com/asjadnazir/statu...13120512909312[/URL]

                                        Comment


                                          Originally posted by Tactical Genius View Post


                                          Not recent enough for you?
                                          Ok, how about last week?
                                          https://www.tampabay.com/news/crime/...th-his-murder/
                                          The overwhelming majority of such cases, where the Police are called out maliciously to a false report, they'll deal with it appropriately. You cant charge someone with attempted murder, because 1 such case out of, say 10,000, leads to a cop killing the wrongfully accused.

                                          Anyway, I dont want to be seen as defending either her or the US Police. It's obvious that little, if any progress has been made in many officers attitudes since Rodney King.

                                          I think we can both agree on G-Man suggestion. Hopefully the lawmakers will run with something similar

                                          Comment


                                            Originally posted by Foot of Astaire's View Post
                                            You cant charge someone with attempted murder, because 1 such case out of, say 10,000, leads to a cop killing the wrongfully accused.
                                            Is that number based on any reseach, an educated guess or just made up?

                                            Comment


                                              Check out #UmbrellaMan on Twitter. No proof yet that the gentleman in question is, as claimed, a police officer, but there certainly seems something very strange going on there.

                                              Comment


                                                Quite. That was dodgy as all get out.

                                                The historical context for Trump's quote. Click through to read the whole thing.

                                                https://twitter.com/igorvolsky/status/1266331221342240769

                                                Comment


                                                  There aren't any definitive stats on this sort of thing but:

                                                  According to this site there were over 10 million arrests (obviously that's not the same as times that police arrived on a scene, which would be much higher) in 2016. It doesn't seem to break down by race.
                                                  According to the Guardian there were 1093 people killed by police in the US in 2016, of which 574 were white, 266 black, 183 hispanic/latino.

                                                  So about 0.01% of arrests led to police shooting someone dead.

                                                  Comment


                                                    Originally posted by Etienne View Post
                                                    There aren't any definitive stats on this sort of thing but:

                                                    According to this site there were over 10 million arrests (obviously that's not the same as times that police arrived on a scene, which would be much higher) in 2016. It doesn't seem to break down by race.
                                                    According to the Guardian there were 1093 people killed by police in the US in 2016, of which 574 were white, 266 black, 183 hispanic/latino.

                                                    So about 0.01% of arrests led to police shooting someone.
                                                    Thanks Etienne,
                                                    However as the last few days have proved, shots do not need to be fired for someone to lost there life. and for every death, there are many incidents of people being hurt (seriously or otherwise). Add those in, that 0.01% starts to rise pretty steeply.

                                                    Comment

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