A Well Regulated Militia . . .

[Nefertiti2]

THis thread by Rebecca Vilkomerson is really important- someone is trying to foment a race war

https://twitter.com/RVilkomerson/status/1122487881455607809

[ursus arctos]

Dov Hikind is an absolutely horrible human being and the worst kind of machine hack.

[Nefertiti2]

https://twitter.com/MichaelSkolnik/status/1122330344957644801

[Tactical Genius]

https://twitter.com/MichaelSkolnik/status/1122330344957644801

That tweet nailed it.

Something that I continuously talk about on OTF. Talking about guns is really a diversion from the real issue that needs to be tackled. Nothing will get fixed until the system of White supremacy is tackled and dismantled.
However, since that comes bundled together with White privilege and other unearned and unmerited goodies, most (and if pushed, i would put a very high percentage) white people are happy with the status quo and react aggressively to any attempts to tackle it.

[Hot Pepsi]

Guns are also a “real issue.” It’s not an either/or question.

[tee rex]

Absolutely. It's not helpful to simply project one country's "issues" onto another. Post-Dunblane/Hungerford, gun laws are not a prominent problem in the UK, whereas in the USA (and NZ) they clearly are. And massacres like Port Arthur in Australia led to gun reform, despite being unrelated to white supremacy.

[Tactical Genius]

Absolutely. It's not helpful to simply project one country's "issues" onto another. Post-Dunblane/Hungerford, gun laws are not a prominent problem in the UK, whereas in the USA (and NZ) they clearly are. And massacres like Port Arthur in Australia led to gun reform, despite being unrelated to white supremacy.

Tee Rex, we still have open White Supremacy terrorism in the UK. Instead of guns people drive vans into crowds of people.
Getting rid of guns isn't going to happen any time soon in the US so maybe going after White Supremacists might be the least path of resistance.

[Satchmo Distel]

Antisemitic hate crimes remain at a high level, according to FBI stats. That's partly due to neo-Nazi groups whose idea of whiteness excludes Jews but I think there are other tropes there, notably Christian fundamentalism that is tied to an older demonology than White Supremacy. Allowing any of these groups to own AR-15s is of course madness.

Meanwhile, Baltimore shooting: motive not yet clear:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...barbecue-death

[Tactical Genius]

Antisemitic hate crimes remain at a high level, according to FBI stats. That's partly due to neo-Nazi groups whose idea of whiteness excludes Jews but I think there are other tropes there, notably Christian fundamentalism that is tied to an older demonology than White Supremacy. Allowing any of these groups to own AR-15s is of course madness.

Sachmo, White Supremacy is the only game in town, although Black people are the main recipients of the attention, Jewish, LGBT, and other non-conforming White People will be targeted from time to time. Hopefully the penny will drop one day, nobody is safe from these nutters and eventually, they will come for us all. Sadly, this is a lesson from the 1930's that people have yet to grasp.

The opening line from the Mass shooter is,
To the Glow-Niggers and Jew-Media reading this.........

[Nefertiti2]

Sachmo, White Supremacy is the only game in town, although Black people are the main recipients of the attention, Jewish, LGBT, and other non-conforming White People will be targeted from time to time. Hopefully the penny will drop one day, nobody is safe from these nutters and eventually, they will come for us all. Sadly, this is a lesson from the 1930's that people have yet to grasp.

Completely agree. TG pus his finger on it. Right Wing Jews in both Israel and the US try to convince the American media that Jews are really "white" compared to the Muslims who they want to depict as the real enemy- but the White Supremacists hate us anyway- and Black people most of all.

[San Bernardhinault]

This shooting seems very weird. It took place about 10 miles away from here, and the local news media is covering it like crazy. Yet I've not had one local talk about it - not on social media or in person. I think the whole idea seems so alien to most people that the physical proximity is almost meaningless - it's no different to it happening in Pittsburgh or Sri Lanka or New Zealand.

I personally remain baffled at how someone can even become a radicalised anti-semite these days. I just don't understand the process that gets someone to thinking that Jews are a threat to a middle class white christian boy from San Diego.

The other thing that crosses my mind on this, at the moment, is that more people died elsewhere in San Diego from guns over the weekend than died in the synagogue shooting, yet there's basically no outcry at all about them. Which suggests that the public and media are way more concerned about, and react much more to, white supremacists than they are about the prevalence of gun deaths.

[ursus arctos]

The Grauniad tried to explain the transmission mechanism.

As did the Mercury News

And Bellingcat ran a typically detailed piece that I think posted after Christchurch.

[Tactical Genius]

I personally remain baffled at how someone can even become a radicalised anti-semite these days. I just don't understand the process that gets someone to thinking that Jews are a threat to a middle class white christian boy from San Diego.

Are you seriously baffled?

Try reading some of my posts, I talk about this all the time.

The other thing that crosses my mind on this, at the moment, is that more people died elsewhere in San Diego from guns over the weekend than died in the synagogue shooting, yet there's basically no outcry at all about them. Which suggests that the public and media are way more concerned about, and react much more to, white supremacists than they are about the prevalence of gun deaths.

Well, there is a sense of logic about most of the other gun deaths. unless it is a passer by being caught in the crossfire, there is usually a direct relationship between the shooter and the victim whereas the random element being in the wrong place at the wrong time is what is so frightening about mass shootings.

[Tactical Genius]

Also, it doesn't help when you catch suspected White Supremesist before they commit their crime, only for the courts to let them out.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/christ...er&via=desktop

[Hot Pepsi]

Tee Rex, we still have open White Supremacy terrorism in the UK. Instead of guns people drive vans into crowds of people.
Getting rid of guns isn't going to happen any time soon in the US so maybe going after White Supremacists might be the least path of resistance.

The US would still have a lot of gun-murder even if there were no such thing as White Supremacy or no racial or ethnic tension at all.

[Tactical Genius]

The US would still have a lot of gun-murder even if there were no such thing as White Supremacy or no racial or ethnic tension at all.

I think you would be surprised how much the numbers would fall Hot Pepsi. Regardless, it beats the current position of burying head in the sand and then the endless fake surprise and navel gazing when such atrocities occur.

[Hot Pepsi]

It’s hard to know what the world would be like without racism except, obviously, that it would be a lot better.

But these type of terrorist attacks make up a small portion of murders in the US. Intra-family murder is a lot more common. https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...-homicide-data

[Tactical Genius]

It’s hard to know what the world would be like without racism except, obviously, that it would be a lot better.

You know you are one of the small minority of White People who believe that right.

But these type of terrorist attacks make up a small portion of murders in the US. Intra-family murder is a lot more common. https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...-homicide-data

You know most White Supremisist killing are not mass Shooting right?
They are massively outnumberd by police killings and racist white people shooting black people and using "I'm white and I say so" laws like stand your ground to murder with impunity knowing full well the judicial system will absolve them.

But the other way around is of course different.......
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2019/0...sing-arguments

[Tactical Genius]

I think white supremacy basically explains why the NRA is a viable thing. If Wayne LaPierre were black...

Indeed, the British are not coming back and the Native Americans are almost extinct so there is no longer a need for a standing militia.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Indeed, the British are not coming back and the Native Americans are almost extinct so there is no longer a need for a standing militia.

Not sure about the US, but the second statement is far from true up here

[Hot Pepsi]

You know you are one of the small minority of White People who believe that right.



You know most White Supremisist killing are not mass Shooting right?
They are massively outnumberd by police killings and racist white people shooting black people and using "I'm white and I say so" laws like stand your ground to murder with impunity knowing full well the judicial system will absolve them.

But the other way around is of course different.......
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2019/0...sing-arguments

Here are the actual stats.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...-homicide-data

About two-thirds of murders are with guns.

About half of murder victims are black as are about half of perpetrators.

No doubt that is related to white supremacy insofar as it has done a lot to create the kinds of neighborhoods where gang culture and revenge murders are normalized, but I don’t think that’s what you have in mind as the kind of violence caused directly by white supremacists.

And, as the stats show, murders are very often in the family or between people who know each other or the result of a spontaneous argument. Race contributes to some of those certainly, but given how segregated the US still is, white people shooting black people is relatively rare compared to the overall numbers. There are a lot of white people itching to shoot a black or brown person, but they probably don’t know any.

And cops or “stand my ground” types shooting people of color appear to be a relatively small percentage of homicides. A few hundred a year vs 12,000 some total murders. That’s not to diminish the importance of that issue - it nothing else, it’s a symptom of a much broader problem of how many police departments treat the black community - but to highlight the huge number of other kinds of murder.

I agree that white supremacy is keeping a lot of gun-makers and gun shops in business and has certainly taken over the NRA, especially recently. But the NRA could go bust tomorrow and there’d still be a shit-ton if guns out there, especially in poorer communities.

You may be underestimating the extent to which guns are an ideology of their own in the US. It’s tied white supremacy to some extent, but appears to be tied to toxic masculinity to a much greater extent - about 90% of murderers are men - and that crosses all racial and ethnic boundaries, unfortunately.

And I do not believe white people opposed to white supremacy are a “small minority.” The most recent reliable guesses I’ve seen suggest about 30-40% of America either believes in white supremacy or at least strongly identifies as white and don’t see what is wrong with that. Not coincidentally, that’s all it took to elect Trump. Of course, a huge portion aren’t paying attention enough to even understand the premise of the question, which favors the status quo.

[Tactical Genius]

Not sure about the US, but the second statement is far from true up here

Fair point, but according to the 2016 Census, they are still under 5% of the population so they would appear to be recovering from the brink which is good news.

[ursus arctos]

The population in the US is also growing once again, but remains desperately poor, notwithstanding the large windfalls from casinos that have had benefited a handful of relatively small tribes.

And as is always the case here, the fact that a small number of Native Americans are now relatively well-off is used as ammunition by those who like to argue that "racism is a thing of the past" (a SCOTUS majority, cough) and that any form of income redistribution or public services are inherently evil and "unAmerican".

[San Bernardhinault]

Well, this is me shown. I knew some of the history of racism in San Diego, particularly inland in places like Metzger in Fallbrook, and some stuff in Santee. But I wasn't aware that we had such a recent history of anti-semitism; that jews were redlined out of La Jolla until the 60s.

The entire United States has yet to come to terms with the national legacy of centuries of genocidesand human trafficking, but San Diego, in particular, drifts along obliviously.

Apparently this also includes me, given my lack of knowledge. I know we have anti-black and anti-latino racism, but I am genuinely surprised at legacy anti-semitism.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Fair point, but according to the 2016 Census, they are still under 5% of the population so they would appear to be recovering from the brink which is good news.

It is. Although what a fully recovered percentage would be is a matter for discussion. The pre-contact population is estimated anywhere between 200,000 and two million, with 500,000 the figure generally used. The present indigenous population is already well over those estimates, but obviously their way of life is significantly different today. The issue is mainly one of quality of life rather than numbers and, as ursus rightly indicates, there's an awful lot that needs to be done in that regard.