Visca Catalunya?

[Lang Spoon]

I remember reading Giles Tremmet’s “Ghosts of Spain” and being dumbfounded by its tin ear toward the “Problem Autonomas” and his blasé acceptance that the PP and the State have divested themselves of Francoism. If there’s any one reason Spain doesn’t have a far right party of even UKIP levels nationwide, it’s cause the PP already tap into that dodgy Imperial Nationalist sentiment. We’re dealing with a PM who makes Charlie Haughey look squeaky clean when it comes to corruption, with a tolerance for cunts singing the Franco words to the anthem etc, but sends in the goon squad to stop fur clad molt middle class grannies from voting. Did I say they were cunts?

[Lang Spoon]

Strength and Unity. god help us this really is a thirties reboot.

[Lang Spoon]

But this is primarily the fault of puigdemont, what you are seeing now is the point. This is beyond their wildest dreams, lending legitimacy to what was a kind of farcical referendum, that wasn't really going to get anywhere or achieve anything.

And Pearse was a wide eyed weirdo who definitely shouldn’t have been running a school. But the Brit reaction to his madness fever dream sealed independence. It doesn’t matter that the Generalitat were arseholes playing with fire, it is The State which is beating and shooting people queuing to vote. This is all Rajoy’s responsibility now, I could see him going full Milosevic rather than doing the decent thing and going (metaphorically) Full Roman with a warm bath and a sharp dagger to the wrists.

[Diable Rouge]

Now he's saying there will be no discussion of independence, and praising the police - that'll be a UDI tomorrow, then.

[Lang Spoon]

Stick yer Jabugo up yer arse, that’s me on a boycott. Pa amb Tomaquet as a tasty breakfast solidarity protest tomorrow as well.

[Diable Rouge]

"No" boycott seems to be confirmed, in some of the early villages declaring, Yes winning by huge margins:

https://mobile.twitter.com/CarrerasA...69944548954117

[Nefertiti2]

Pep Guardiola"


"They said that we attacked police officers. With what? With votes?"

[Diable Rouge]

Well, that escalated quickly!

https://mobile.twitter.com/catalanne...91587547664384

[Patrick Thistle]

I am painfully aware I don't know much about the Spanish Civil War. But are we on the brink of having another one?

[Satchmo Distel]

I know football is trivial in these circumstances, but it would appear to throw La Liga into chaos if one of its two biggest clubs is going to be no longer in Spain in 24 hours' time. Then there is UEFA, FIFA, and whether Barcelona's players will be required to withdraw from the national team.

[anton pulisov]

Well, the Spanish central government handled that well, didn't they.

[anton pulisov]

The Spanish riot police attacking the local fire brigade.

[Nefertiti2]

Piquet retweeting journalists saying how ashamed of the coverage they are. -and Of the demonstration in Madrid. The figures are out

LATEST: Catalan government statement
- 2,262,424 ballots cast in referendum
- 2,020,144 in favour of yes
- 89.29% yes vote

[Janik]

What was the nominal size of the electorate? It would be beautiful if over 50% of the possible total voted yes, but I guess that is unlikely.

I fervently hope that Catalonia does become independent, simply to demonstrate to other governments that reacting like the Spanish authorities did yesterday is not only shaming but also counter-productive to their aims.

[ursus arctos]

Per Wiki, there were 5.34 million registered voters, so your guess was accurate.

One of the injured Catalans has died.

[Janik]

One of the injured Catalans has died.

Flashbacks to the Velvet Revolution. Except, in this case, it is presumably a true report. Though whether 'Martin Smid' was real or fictitious ultimately didn't matter...

[Hot Pepsi]

I know football is trivial in these circumstances, but it would appear to throw La Liga into chaos if one of its two biggest clubs is going to be no longer in Spain in 24 hours' time. Then there is UEFA, FIFA, and whether Barcelona's players will be required to withdraw from the national team.

No reason why a league can't have teams from more than one country.

[Hot Pepsi]

What was the nominal size of the electorate? It would be beautiful if over 50% of the possible total voted yes, but I guess that is unlikely.

I fervently hope that Catalonia does become independent, simply to demonstrate to other governments that reacting like the Spanish authorities did yesterday is not only shaming but also counter-productive to their aims.

Yes, this!

Any place that wants independence should be allowed to have it.

[Sits]

There are parts of SW France (Carcassonne, Beziers etc.) with significant Catalan populations. What's going on there lately? Confess to having absolutely no idea but if we end up with an independent Catalonia are those Catalans going to feel left out?

[Sits]

Oh, and the government's response was and is disgusting.

[ad hoc]

Rajoy has to go. If he genuinely cares about Spanish unity he needs to resign today, there is no other way I see Catalunya remaining within Spain.

This will have ramifications beyond Spain too. Every two bit independence movement within Europe will call a referendum now, in the hope of a heavy handed government response conferring international legitimacy. I bet that people round me are even as I type working out the logistics of organising a ballot here.

[Diable Rouge]

What was the nominal size of the electorate? It would be beautiful if over 50% of the possible total voted yes, but I guess that is unlikely.

I fervently hope that Catalonia does become independent, simply to demonstrate to other governments that reacting like the Spanish authorities did yesterday is not only shaming but also counter-productive to their aims.

Being reported there were 770,000 confiscated ballots, which would confirm the 3m turnout stated at close of polls.

[laverte]

There are parts of SW France (Carcassonne, Beziers etc.) with significant Catalan populations. What's going on there lately? Confess to having absolutely no idea but if we end up with an independent Catalonia are those Catalans going to feel left out?

The effect is more likely to be cultural, in my opinion: a boost (and more funding) for artistic and linguistic projects. French Catalonia, which is really centred on Perpignan (Carcassonne and Beziers are historically part of the Languedoc, where the language is/was occitan), is already enjoying a bit of a cultural renaissance, thanks to Schengen and the cross-border TGV; about one-quarter of kids in the area now learn some of the language at school, and there's regional and European funding for arts and literacy projects. Still, very few people under 60 can read or write in semi-correct Catalan, and it's estimated to be spoken in less than 1% of homes in the department.

Perpignan is a poor, ageing, restless town with an unusually large number of competing (sometimes antagonistic) community identities, notably Gypsy, pied-noir and Arab. Historically, speakers of hispanicky languages have been associated with the poorest and most stigmatised: migrants (especially from around Valencia, with their already wonky Catalan) and Gypsies. There just isn't much room for Catalan nationalism. The countryside has been more receptive, and the large number of retirees moving to the area (known as the Roussillon: it is the sunniest place in mainland France) from elsewhere in the country has hardened the local identity a little, but it still rarely goes deeper than adding a pooing gnome to their crèche, supporting Barcelona at football, and preferring their rugby à treize.

[Diable Rouge]

The Catalans probably won't rush to rejoin the EU, based on the official response:

https://mobile.twitter.com/EU_Commis...95851515604993

[anton pulisov]

Fair enough that the EC says the referendum is not valid. But absolute silence from them about Spanish riot police beating up old ladies for the crime of taking part in a self-organised poll.