Poll - Next Labour Party Leader

[ooh aah]

She's continuity McDonnell surely?

[David Agnew]

Who knows. It's obvious that she's been groomed as the likely successor, but that will only go so far, to be honest. if she's Continuity Corbyn/McDonnell, then from a political standpoint, I'd put her fairly highly in terms of preferences (depending on how she performs in the hustings, of course - from what I've seen so far she's a good talker, but not quick enough thinking on her feet). If she's Continuity Milne, I won't even give her a preference number.

[Snake Plissken]

"It's because you don't like the policies!"
"No! I don't mind the policies, it's the person presenting them!"
"It's definitely the policies."
"It really isn't. I just think that the person presenting them isn't right."
"Why won't you admit it is the policies?"
"Look. For the hundredth time, it isn't the policies. The guy presenting them just isn't good enough."

*ten minutes later*

"Right. I've changed the front person. Same policies, different person. This one is much more acceptable, I think."
"Ah...well... you see..."

[David Agnew]

Thing is, I love the policies. i like Corbyn (McDonnell would have been better, mind).

Its Milne that has been the problem for me, for a long time. You don’t need to read between the lines of what Emily Thornberry said (“Jeremy was let down by his advisors”).

She came up here for a Q&A, and was asked why she backed Corbyn, rather than support the coup in 2016 - and she was asked in very neutral terms - and she freely admitted she didn’t vote for him in 2015, but was enthusiastic about how people had flocked to the party, and she loved the policies, and saw it as her duty to the party to see Corbyn and the policies through.

[Nefertiti2]

https://twitter.com/molono/status/1208340253234388992?s=20https://twitter.com/molono/status/1208340253234388992?s=20

[Nefertiti2]

"Labour MPs are notorious for their reluctance to fight the ideological battle for democratic socialism"

says Roy Hattersley

I was astonished to find myself agreeing with him, until I realised that his notion of democratic socialsim is neother socialist nor democratic


he's completely lost it

Men and women who had spent long, dark nights outside Labour meetings hawking revolutionary newspapers came in from the cold – bringing their sectarian intolerance with them.
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They became the pathfinders for the most extensive and, it must be admitted, most successful takeover bid in Labour history. At its heart was Momentum, which began life under the guise of Corbyn’s Praetorian Guard but swiftly evolved into a vehicle for moving the party to what turned out to be the unelectable left. Momentum infiltrated constituency parties, enrolled enough delegates to successive annual conferences to gain a stranglehold on party policy, took effective control of Labour’s national executive committee and attempted – with a measure of success – to “deselect” Labour MPs who did not share its prejudices. Momentum found natural allies in recent conversions from Marxist and Trotskyite factions who, encouraged by the hope of colonising a real and functioning political party, suddenly saw the light.

Compared with Momentum, the Militant tendency – which attempted to subvert Labour in the 1980s – was a ragbag of second-rate conspirators who took corrupt control of Liverpool but were only an irritant in other parts of the country. No Militant sympathisers were employed in the Labour party headquarters or in its regional offices, and no major trade union leader supported Militant’s aims. Now full-time officials openly boast of their Momentum membership. Militant remained an obscure sect.

[Flynnie]

Hattersley has just completely made up who voted for and supports Corbyn. If Long-Bailey wins, she will have been voted for by hundreds of thousands of people. If sensible centrism is so popular, why can’t they fucking get anybody in the Labour Party to vote for it?

also worth remembering that Corbyn got 49.6% of first preference votes in 2015. He’d have won on the second ballot after Liz Kendall’s votes were reallocated. He walked it.

[Snake Plissken]

If Rebecca Long Bailey is elected party leader, Labour MPs should challenge her authority

But it was never about the policies.

[Nefertiti2]

“Parasites”

that rhetoric is reassuring

[URL]https://twitter.com/dpjhodges/status/1208647539723001856?s=21[/URL]

[Nefertiti2]

That Hattersly piece is insane. What does Hattersly Democratic Socialism involve, if not giving people security of tenure, and restoring trade union rights?

[Snake Plissken]

I really hope that Glenda has written him out of the will.

[Nefertiti2]

"Stop banging on aboiut Greta Thunberg"

[DCI Harry Batt]

God I hope this is over soon.

[Nefertiti2]

It will go on relentlessly until the next General Election

[DCI Harry Batt]

What a waste of time and energy.

[Sean of the Shed]

It will go on relentlessly until time immemorial, or at least for as long as the right wing media dictates the zeitgeist.

[Flynnie]

It will go on relentlessly until time immemorial, or at least for as long as the right wing media dictates the zeitgeist.

Or, until there’s a concerted, successful effort to completely purge the centrists out of the party.

[DCI Harry Batt]

Or until people stop thinking that the only thing that matters is the sodding Labour sodding Party, and instead go and do something worthwhile.

[E10 Rifle]

I have some sympathy with TT on this, despite not agreeing with his anti-Labourism. 2020 needs to be the year when all those canvassers, all those enthusiastic Labour lefties get out and do some community and union organising. And rather less worrying about who gets elected to the sodding CLP GC.

Anyway, of the contenders, Long-Bailey's well regarded by people I trust as conscientious and diligent, though she doesn't come across thrillingly on telly. She's worked closer with McDonnell than Corbyn's team too, and I note that McDonnell has said - probably wisely - that he won't get involved in the campaign for the next leader. Though part of me still wishes that next leader was him.

I don't actually mind Nandy, and I particular admired her for declining the opportunity to berate Labour party staff when she was interviewed on Newsnight last week, though I fear Blue Labourites will swarm on her and try to tilt policy in that Legitimate Concerns direction.

Starmer we don't know that much about, politically, though he was impressive under Corbyn. But as he's from a neighbouring constituency to Jezza, that 'London elite' stuff will come back at us in spades again.

Lewis is politically sound, and has said promising things on PR, but is a bit of a maverick, and those groping allegations - and his response to them - made me uneasy. He could end up being a liability.

Thornberry does indeed come across as someone who'd be fun to have a pint with - there's been a couple of times when I've seen her on telly and it's looked like she's had a couple of sharpeners. But I think she'd be all wrong as leader - another from a neighbouring constituency to Corbyn and a bit up and down politically.

Not quite sure what Lucy was on about when talking about unions' affiliation with Momentum: there are no formal ties, and the only union involved in any great extent with them is Unite, who have pulled some strings when it's come to who Momentum endorses as candidates but not much more. Both organisations need sharpening up of their internal democracy.

Yeah Milne and Murray can go - they've been too-easy scapegoats at various times but they've been the wrong people doing the wrong things. Not competent enough.

[ursus arctos]

That's a great post, E10

There's nothing that the forces of reaction want more than to have Labour assemble the circular firing squad and take their eye off the essential ball of working on the ground.

There are obvious differences, but a similar mistake allowed the wingnuts to take over so much of state and local government here.

[E10 Rifle]

This self-flagellation also ignores one of the main - if not THE main - reason we lost: THE TORIES LIED AND CHEATED AND SMEARED AND ACTED THE CUNT. And most of the media supported them in doing so.

[ursus arctos]

Absolutely

Which perpetuates this mistakes made in not challenging the Leave campaign more forcefully.

It was a controlled experiment for what they want to do more broadly, and worked better then they ever imagined.

[Lucy Waterman]

My comment about the unions breaking with Momentum was about the faint possibility of them not rowing in with Momentum behind the candidate backed by the current leadership. I don’t know where the affiliation thing has come from.

[DCI Harry Batt]

It came from what you said, in the context of the Labour Party. Have you really been a member?

[Lucy Waterman]

I’m increasingly of the view that unless one of the big unions breaks with Momentum, there could well be only one name on the ballot for leader, and hence no ballot.

You will have to point me to where it says “affiliated” here. I have already explained what I meant.