Proddies

[Wyatt Earp]

I've never been quite sure why so many of our religion set-tos on here concern the left-footed crowd. I don't know how OTF's other "fundamentalist atheists" (to borrow the term Seumas Milne was so conspicuously pleased with himself for using in the paper the other day) feel about it, but the Catholics are really not at the top of my silliness list at all.

I do find the whole thing baffling: stuff like taking a loony notion such as transubstantiation and throwing a huge grave-faced intellectual effort at trying to reconcile it with an otherwise non-loony view of the world. I mean, why would you want to bother? But compared with, for example, Calvinist predestination, or Bible Belt creationism, it's pretty small beer, irrationality-wise.

So what I'm saying is, let's all have a go at the whey-faced Prods as well. There. Aren't I nice?

[JtS]

Proddies

On my way to work this morning I watched a South Park episode about The Mormons. Boy are those guys dumb.

[Gerontophile]

Proddies

whey-faced Prods

Is this a pro-Curds stance?

[Duncan Gardner]

Proddies

I've never been quite sure why so many of our religion set-tos on here concern the left-footed crowd

The Free Ps are less willing to defend themselves?

But compared with, for example, Calvinist predestination, or Bible Belt creationism, it's pretty small beer, irrationality-wise

Aren't they both tending to 100% irrational?

[Wyatt Earp]

Proddies

Come on, where's that No Surrender spirit?

[Duncan Gardner]

Proddies

So what I'm saying is, let's all have a go at the whey-faced Prods as well

Come on, out with it. D'ye want a united Ireland or not?

[evilC]

Proddies

[Wyatt Earp]

Proddies

Yeah, it's not the degree of irrationality as such that's the metric here perhaps, so much as the extent to which the doctrine can be safely reconciled with a basically sensible set of working hypotheses about the world.

For example, the Catholic notion of free will (or the various Catholic notions that have been bruited about) has tended to involve a mysterious core that I don't like, and philosophically I think some form of determinism-plus-randomness is probably true instead. But in practice (and paradoxically) it's far easier to reconcile Catholic free will than Calvinist determinism with the clear empirical fact that human minds are fairly unconstrained choice-making kinds of things.

My disagreement with Catholicism is rather technical and academic; that with Calvinism is severe and practical.

[Guest]

Proddies

There was a great one-panel cartoon by Tom Mathews in Hot Press years ago, entitled Cattle Prods.

It consisted of two angry-faced Friesian heifers glaring at some bloke and saying: "Piss off you fucking Taig."

[Duncan Gardner]

Proddies

Ha ha. Here's an Oirish scarecrow.

[Anton Gramscescu]

Proddies

As lunatic as some of the protestant sects are, don't we all owe Hus, Luther and their pals a significant debt of cultural gratitude for standing up and saying: "shit, people, if you actually *read* the bible, it doesn't say half the goofy things those men behind the curtain say it does"? This set up a cultural dynamic quite crucial to the way people - especially on OTF - think today.

[boris]

Proddies

I dunno, this is all a bit Christian in my view. While obviously the Prods and the left footers are worthy subjects of ridicule and condemnation, as are all other gentile denominations, we shouldn't let the other Abrahamists get off too lightly. Them Jews and Muslims (of all denominations) are equally capable of some ridiculous doctrines and interpretations, and don't forget the Hindu with their preposterous elephant and monkey gods and whatnot.

I'm prepared to give some Buddhists an element of exemption from this, as it's largely a non-theist religion, except in places like Nepal and Tibet, where it was just superimposed over a load of godbothery.

[imp]

Proddies

And let's not let the fucking Pagans off the hook either. Whatever it is they get up to nowadays.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Proddies

About 15 years ago, on the road from Ennis to Galway, outside the galway village of Ardrahan, one exasperated farmer had Written in 6 foot high letters on the side of a row of enormous silage bales, "CROWS ARE BASTARDS"

It was one of the most unexpected things I'd ever seen.

I think that the difference in perception between catholics and protestants comes down to a number of factors. The first is that Catholicism has seriously overreached in the past, and done a hell of a lot of damage to a hell of a lot of people, but this is combined with the knowledge that it changes all the time, and they are making a lot of it up as they go along, so it's an easier target that people are more motivated to attack.

Whereas protestantism has two strands. The sort of anglicanism which nobody really takes seriously, which has collapsed under that whole questioning ethos, which is what I think most people on this board think of when they think of protestantism, rather than the mentally ill hardcore versions so popular in scotland, northern Ireland and America.

[Reed John]

Proddies

What are "left footers?"

I grew up in a Presbyterian church. We're supposed to be Calvinist predestinationists, but you wouldn't know it. It doesn't come up. At most, we were told to think it means "God knows how its all going to turn out in the end, but he's not going to tell you, so you just have to keep trying anyway." It doesn't seem to have any practical implications for the excercise of free will.

[Hofzinser]

Proddies

"Left-footers" are Catholics.

[Duncan Gardner]

Proddies

Left footers are Catholics. It's the way they lead with a spade, or something.

Apparently 32% of the population declared as Christian in South Korea's last census.

[hobbes]

Proddies

imp wrote:

And let's not let the fucking Pagans off the hook either. Whatever it is they get up to nowadays.

Fucking around with crystals and growing beards, mainly. It's not like the olden days when they'd all dance around naked after getting battered on fermented asses milk and magic mushrooms before settling down to a good, old fashioned orgy.

[boris]

Proddies

hobbes wrote:

imp wrote:

And let's not let the fucking Pagans off the hook either. Whatever it is they get up to nowadays.

Fucking around with crystals and growing beards, mainly.

Yeah, and the men are just as bad.

[Wyatt Earp]

Proddies

This set up a cultural dynamic quite crucial to the way people - especially on OTF - think today.

That's true enough. Though I think "especially on OTF" is laying it on a bit thick: much as I prefer this forum to all others I've come across, I wouldn't want to claim we're the world leaders in critical thinking.

[Anton Gramscescu]

Proddies

I wouldn't want to claim we're the world leaders in critical thinking.

Er, no, me neither. That came out a bit wrong.

[Heliotrope]

Proddies

When I was a little kid, I noticed that the relatives on my mother's side of the family used Crest toothpaste, but my dad's relatives used Colgate, so I assumed that Crest was for Catholics, and Colgate for Protestants.

But as an adult, I have noticed other differences: When my Catholic grandparents died, back at their house afterward it was like a huge party, with lots of guests and food and drink and chatter. But when my paternal grandmother died, the family gathering afterward was very somber and low-key and only involved the immediate family. They don't even talk much about anything; I feel like I hardly know anything about my grandfather, who died when my dad was 13. This could be the reserve that is attributed to Appalachian people, however.

[Guest]

Proddies

As a Lapsed one;my late step-father was also an enthusiastic minister of that faith, including in the North of Ireland, let's just say there's way way too many of them.

And their often collective paranoia doesn't help either. There's plenty wrong with the Catholic Church, but at least they have, or had, some sort of collective guilt complex.

Protestantism in its more extreme forms, just breeds arrogance at best.

[Moonlight Shadow]

Proddies

Calvin is a cunt. We're still struggling with his legacy in my home-town...

[Guest]

Proddies

John Knox was an even bigger cunt. We're still struggling with his legacy in my country.